Why do you think that they have to have the exact same routine?? The Cobra is well documented and Dozer has his own HELICOPTER manuver that he performs differently , as far as the chakra goes it is something the sukhoi pilot performs and it is in no means the only AIR SHOW MANUEVER or the routine that is perfect , every pilot has his own routine ( it is called freedom) , the pilot isnt bound by a obligation to fly in monotony of what other pilots are flying ( infact that was what the sukhoi test pilots were so praised for decades ago) he can do whatever he thinks demonstrates the capability of the jet , he does the sustained 30 degrees YAW manuver and the helicopter manuver in addition to the 60 degrees sustained close circuit thing .

Air and space mag Aug-sept 2006

http://www.airspacemag.com/issues/2006/august-september/FEATURE-raptor.php

Falling down and spining is not the Helicopter that the F-16 VISTA/MATV does, the F-16 VISTA/MATV losses very little altitude.
Any way up to this moment probably you are right i have to recheck in one of the videos i have where i have the F-16MATV to tell you how much altitude it losses but up to what i remember it losses little altitude thanks to thrust vectoring at Yaw and Pitch see that the F-22 has not thrust vectoring at YAW

Yeah that’s what they said about the Cobra too :rolleyes: Guess what, just because they don’t show something at airshows doesn’t mean it’s not possible.

Ah good answers and because we do not see martians it means there are not martians hehehehehe.

Shush it is so secret the Frolov Chakra tha we do not want Pugachev to see it performed by the F-22 because he might ask royalties for his intellectual property 😀

You said it brother! Which is why for the most part I’ve stopped responding to Firebar, OverG, and yourself.

Please be a mature person, aircraft are machines, machines can always be improve, can always be shot down, the fact the F-117 was shot down it proves you no weapon is safe, no weapon is unvulnerable.

You get the posture the F-22 is unbeatable, stealth technology flawless, you show propaganda style answers, the people of Lockheed when they knew the F-117 was shot down they were not thinking it`s a fluke, no they had to think the enemy had technology that made stealth technology vulnerable and found stealth flaws.

Stealth is not perfect, specially when you have nations with similar scientific and technological level.

The USAF knows it, but they know that if they fight assymetric wars the possibilities the enemy beats you are quit low.

The F-22 as a weapons system is the best fighter aircraft, true but it does not mean some aircraft are not more manoeuvrable, have not supercruise or armed not with better weapons.

The F-22 is the most balanced fighter in what respects stealth, supercruise and super manoeuvrability.

Do you think a SAM system can’t be concealed, or repositioned? If the targeting and monitoring of assets was that sophisticated, then why were so many dummy tanks hit, huh?

You obviously aren’t aware that black is NOT the optimum paintjob for hiding an aircraft at night. The USAF wanted them black, so they’re black.

Meaning that it wasn’t “old radars and old missiles made by the Soviet Union” that brought the F117A down either, was it?

Account of what, the F-117A shootdown?

Again, this is all irrelevant, as I am in no way saying that the F-117A or the F-22A are invisible.

The Westen report i gave you says the SAM was upgraded, and this shows you that even a small upgrade can redered ineffective an aircraft that supposedly had to render obsolete any known air defence system or future systems.

Second we are not talking about the newest Russian SAMs but a very old missile designed in the late 1950s.

The aircraft was locked by an old missile, shot it by an old missile using a device based upon the same electromagnetic emissions the F-117 supposedly rendered useless thanks to faceting and RAM. 😀

Do you think that Russia won`t export that Technology? do you think that a cheap device that has rendered billions poured into 57 aircraft useless deserves acknowledgement as a proof Stealth technology has some flaws.

Russian articles claim that some radar frecuencies can detect stealth aircraft.

AIM-120 is an active radar AAM. Normally you fire it with midcourse guidance from the launch platform until it goes active, but you can also use it in “attack dog” mode. You fire it inertially to a certain point, where it goes active and locks onto and chases the closest target. Fire it like that towards a MiG-31 and the FOXHOUND won’t have any signals to get an RWR indicator off of. Especially when you consider that the F-22A can cue an AIM-120 shot using ESM only, tracking FLASH DANCE emissions from the FOXHOUND and launching an AIM-120.

Also, who says you have to fire an AIM-120 in tail-chase mode. Fire it from head-on in the manner I described from outside the Raptor’s detectable range by the MiG-31 (which is, again, what the F-22A was designed to achieve-missile launches outside the effective range of enemy sensors) and FOXHOUND won’t know what’s going on until the AMRAAM goes active, by which time it’s probably too late given the relative non-maneuverability of FOXHOUND.

Radome: nope. Radar array is angled and the radome is treated, with all edges being treated and serrated.

Nozzle: nope. All edges are treated and serrated.

Auxiliary intakes: won’t be open in cruise flight, and again, probably nope, as again all edges are treated and serrated.

Cockpit: now the both of you are making things up, reaching, or both. The canopy is gold treated to prevent radar signals from being to enter the canopy and reflect off of the cockpit. That’s old news; look at current USAF F-16s and the Rafale. The canopy itself is also shaped to reduce RCS as it acts like a solid surface.

The F-22 is not invisible to radar, it only has a minimized radar signature to some radar frecuencies and radar models

Китай научился обнаруживать F-22
Комментарии
Охота на невидимку (сербский опыт)
23.11.2005
Как сбить F-117 старой советской ракетой
Нож в спину пятого поколения
20.04.2006
Ведущие американские эксперты считают, что разработка истребителя F-22 является критической ошибкой Пентагона

Китайские военные объявили о создании технологии, позволяющей обнаруживать американские истребители-невидимки F-22, сообщает газета World Tribune со ссылкой на источники в китайских военных НИИ.
F-22 является новейшим истребителем-“невидимкой” ВВС США. Наряду с ранее созданным стратегическим бомбардировщиком B-2 и истребителем-бомбардировщиком F-117, он построен c использованием концепции “cтелс”, обеспечивающей снижение радиолокационной заметности машины путем использования в конструкции машины радиопоглощающих материалов и придания планеру особой формы, отклоняющей лучи радара в стороны от антенны-приемника.

Китайские военные эксперты заявляют, что слабость концепции “cтелс” заключается в том, что она была создана для противодействия ныне существующим системам ПВО, и новые средства, разработанные с учетом знаний о возможностях самолетов-“невидимок” позволят нейтрализовать эффект “cтелс”-технологий.

Сообщается, что основным средством, на которые рассчитывают китайские военные для противодействия самолетам-“невидимкам” является использование множества разнесенных в пространстве радиолокационных антенн, которые, передавая информацию на единый пост управления, укажут точное местоположение самолета-“невидимки”.

Следует однако отметить, что о данной технологии как о возможном средстве противостояния самолетам-“невидимкам” российские военные эксперты сообщали уже несколько лет назад.

Сайты по теме

http://lenta.ru/news/2006/05/19/stealth/

This article says the Chinese are developing technologies to detect the F-22

They claim that the F-117 was shot down by the same technology it was thought the F-117 had rendered obsolete, yes old radars and old missiles made by the Soviet Union.

The F-22 makes more difficult the hunt, it`s a very well armed figter, has good performance but by no means it is invisible to radar its faceting still reflects radar emissions not to the original radar source but to different direction, these emissions might be weakened by RAM but still they will emit a reduced signature.

these emitions can still be detected by a set of radars arranged on the ground.

It is the fate of the F-22 to be neutralized by Russian or Chinese technology that is the dynamics of the arms race what is important is how fast it will be to have a real meaning politically and militarilly?

Good question! The Russians SIBNIA did not have any role in the development of the IAI Lavi, then how can they be the judge of what Lavi content is in the J-10?

You are totally and utterly wrong, SIBNIA has helped the Chinese in several programs among them the J-11 and the J-10, they know that becasue the Russians several times reported Israeli technicians working along side them and Chegdu in the J-10 program and the Russians claim the J-10 is based on the Lavi.

No, I am not misunderstanding you. Your talk of different “concept and goals” is just another way for you to say Jews being superior when Israel had never developed a proper plane of her own. So how did the Lavi became such a super plane when all Israel had was the Mirage knockoff the Kfir before or since?

Where are the other Israeli superplanes? Are you blaming the US for stifling your supermen capabilities.

You have been doing the same thing for years. You have no interest in China and make no attempt to study or understand anything Chinese and yet you were at a Chinese forum making claims based on “concept of progress.” :rolleyes:

Sorry, in aviation, the goals of all nations are the same.

And China which has given the world some of the foundation inventions (paper, gunpowder, compass, silk, porcelain, etc.) is chop liver? :rolleyes:

Yes, you Jews are supermen. So what does that have to do with the fact that the Lavi was never put into production?

Historically the West have a far more negative view of the Jews and we knew this particular view overpowered any sense of the Jews setting progress in the West.

Germany, the most technologically advanced nation of the West, was of the view that the West was infiltrated and slowly ruined by Jews. This view led to mass murder in the 1940s.

These stereotypical views, negative or positive are not present in East Asian upbringing, we don’t know or care for them. So why should I accept either one as an argument?

I just need to know how a plane in China could be the Lavi when the Lavi was not put into production in Israel itself and all five Lavis were accounted for in Israel.

More talk about the superiority of Jews.

In order to explain the Lavi, you have put forth the other equally famopus qualities of Jews and those are the Western notions that Jews will betray all friends and all alies for money and money alone. That Jews will lie and not trustworthy.

In order to explain the Lavi in China you are saying that Israel backstabbed the US, its protector.

Governments are not suicidal. Israel denies any passing of the Lavi to China and the evidence is on its side.

All five Lavis are accounded for in Israel. The Lavi itself was never a viable design.

You are attempting to use both the ugly and the good stereotypes of the Jew in order to claim the J-10 which flies only in China.

I rather believe the Israeli government: the Lavi never went to China.

Again, Israel might have passed (American) technology to China. But the J-10 is not the Lavi. Just as the Gripen is not American because there are American technology in it.

Strevitel, you make no attempt to study or understand the Chinese or the Chinese aviation industry. Your replies (and Sens’ replies as well) are all based in this concept of racial and ethnic superiority. Your understanding of the Chines is based on nothing but stereotypes.

So just stick to the facts. Israel denies any transfer of the Lavi to China. All five Lavi are accounted for in Israel not China. And the Lavi itself is a failed project from a much smaller and inferior aviation industry compared to China’s.

That is all we need to know. We do not need yours or Sens racial talk on Jewish superiority or dismissive speeches about “eastern” ways of thinking or Chinese “nationalism.”

Just look at the facts and nothing more.

First let`s start to straight up a few things.

A) All humans are the same because we are the same spieces, this is also a view shared by Judaism

B)Israel`s influence in the Western world has been a moral one. Christinanity is a form of Judaism, was founded by Jews and spreaded through the non jewish world, even Islam has its root on Judaism

C)Jews have had great thinkers and scientists through the ages as a result of several factors, among them a moral revolution started by concepts such as the ten commandments, the Sabbath, etc etc and was reworked by Christianity the renaissance and the greek philosophy

I will tell you that Judaism is a religion that has had great influence in the Western world due to Chistianity.

Now Golden Dragon Jews are like any one can do good deeds and can do bad deeds, however Judaism uncourages people to do good deeds and avoid bad deeds.
Thanks to the fact Judaism has encouraged people to do good deeds jews have had great thinkers, scientists and inventors.

Since Israel is a nation where science and engineering are at high levels and there are many jew scientists who have links to the state of Israel such as Marcel Bloch AKA Dassault Israel could developed the IAI Kfir, the Lavi was also developed by israeli engineers and scientists, only 40% of the Lavi components were made by the US, the US financed 40% of the Lavi investment.

Now the Israeli Government never denied passing aircraft technology to China, niether not involved in the J-10 program, only denied passing all the Lavi technology to the J-10.

Russia`s SIBNIA affirms that Israel passed more technology than basicly is acknowledged by Israel becuase in the statement it is more less a variant of the Lavi implies the direct Lavi ancestry of the J-10.

The US made the same claim that SIBNIA made.