Not with such both really. They have their own reality. But the problem is, they use the same sheme like former communist historians. Some truth mixed with a lot of fiction.
Gorbatschov knew very well, why he demanded Glasnost in the 80s.

Sens

Please, we are not talking about communism, the only things you are claiming is sometimes we are right sometimes and we are wrong sometimes and that we mix truth with lies, and that you are the one that has reality and truth, please Sens be realistic, niether the West or the East hold the entire truth and both have lied.

Once you realise that you will abandon preference of sources and you will stop prejudices

I prove that you have a problem with reality.
The Harrier send to Italy in a mixed sqn and one naval sqn, which were observed daily and those did survive.
Point. There is no question about that left.
If you have a problem about the fate of a single Harrier, you can post it.

None claimed about ,” the 160 aircraft shot down in Bekka Valley?” , so it is you alone and I am not surprised by such unlogical behavior.

You have a real personal problem. You are in desperate need to undermine Western sources, because you still hope from that to bolster credibility of own claims. It is bad behavior in my eyes to cheat less informed readers in that way!

Hehehehe Sens

When did you get posession of reality and truth? when did you become the reality spoke person? the only thing i am doing if you noticed is basicly give the same credibility to non western claims, the only thing you dislike about what i have done is that i have said the West also sometimes lies and Russia sometimes tells the truth.

did not i post Syrian aircraft shot down? did i hide those pictures? i am simply more skeptical to western claims.

You want me to repeat as a dogma the Western accounts and the only base to believe those accounts is the so called liberty the western media enjoys I will give credit to the Russians simply because they are a great nation and no nation is inhabitated by saints who can not lie, and that includes any nation either from the West or the East.

Believe me i have seen lots of pictures of aircraft, read lots of accounts claiming the superiority of Western aircraft, and History has proved how good are sometimes russian aircraft and how little evidence is available of the Western claimed kills, i have seen pictures of F-4 shot down in the air by SAMs, Syrian Mig-21s on the HUD of Israeli fighters, as well F-4s on the Gun sight of MiG-21s, what i do believe is Russian aircraft are not the crap many claim See how few HUD pictures you can find

The picture i posted is from a mock combat

Flogger,

Through a variety of sources the following RAF Harrier GR.7s were noted at Gioia de Colle, Italy during 1999. Flogger you are aware that aviation spotter, journalists etc could stand outside Gioia de Colle and watch and note aircraft coming and going?

ZD322
ZD408
ZG477
ZG505
ZG530
ZG531
ZG857
ZG859
ZD323
ZD330
ZD376
ZD437
ZD347
ZD401
ZD407
ZD431
ZD352
ZG503
ZG504

All of these are still in service with the RAF.

I take it that you are Russian? Why is it that your country can’t provide the serials and construction numbers of even short production aircraft? Why is there not a complete set of construction numbers for Su-33s? Why is there not a complete set of construction numbers for Yak-38s? In the west these production runs are freely available with both serials and matching construction numbers. It is obvious that you cannot get your head around this simple fact and that you would rather live in the world of ‘everything can be covered up’. I bet you even believe that the production runs made available to the public are all fake and that they actually produced more just so that nations can hide their combat losses? I wouldn’t put it passed you after reading your many posts!

Anyway what conspiracy theories are you going to enthral us with when all the Harrier GR.7 serials that were based in Italy are all still alive and well?

In response to your ‘airshow theory’ I’ve popped up the relative aircraft caught by aviation enthusiasts/photographers outside of mass public airshows.

Obviously aircraft spotting and the freedom that we have in the UK would be alien to yourself. Flogger, what is the nearest military airbase to yourself? How

long would it take for base authorities/security to turn up if you turned up with following at a Russian base?

Binoculars
Camera fitted with long-range lens
Radio scanner
Publications listing serials and construction numbers
Publications listing callsigns and frequencies
Notebook to write down details

In the UK this has been the norm for several decades now. Some bases even provide parking and viewing areas!

Turn up with no appointment and as long as you don’t stray onto MOD property then you won’t get into trouble. Individuals even climb up the sides of mountains and hillsides in order to catch low flying missions in designated low-level routes.

Here is the Harrier production list which covers every GR airframe and particularly those that were involved in Allied Force:

http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/HAR-PROD.PDF

Note that the construction number/production number is on the tail as well as the serial on the rear fuselage. Again I’m probably wasting my time here as

this will be completely alien to your mindset. No doubt you will be jumping up and down claiming ‘cover up! cover up’ ‘everything from the West is a cover
up!’

OK Flogger note the airframes caught by aviation enthusiasts/photographers outside of the mass public airshow displays. Many of these aircraft are shown on actual everyday training missions. Take a note of the photographers. You can even contact them if you so wish. Are you aware of the type of cover-up that would have to be going on to even hide one combat loss Harrier GR.7?

ZD322:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD322&distinct_entry=true

ZD322 carrying live munitions to bombing range in Scotland.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5652653

ZD408:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD408&distinct_entry=true

ZD408 pictured overshooting at its operating base:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/7/8/9/0662987.jpg

ZG477:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?cnsearch=P67&distinct_entry=true

Link where ZG477 is imaged in Canada during a Maple Flag exercise:

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/hangar/2000/mapleflag/maple.htm

ZG505:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZG505&distinct_entry=true

ZG505 imaged from carrying mission markings from operation over Iraq 2003:

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/hangar/2003/telictanker/zg505.htm

ZG530:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?keywords=ZG530

ZG530 on its way to an exercise in Norway (Artic camouflage):

http://airteamimages.com/imageFiles/uploads/24617_800.jpg

ZG531:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZG531&distinct_entry=true

ZG531 on its way to exercise in Norway 2004 (Artic camouflage)

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/5/9/3/0634395.jpg

ZG857:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZG857&distinct_entry=true

ZG857 on a training sortie through the Lake District, UK 2004:

http://www.targeta.co.uk/images/041_6387_RJa.jpg

ZG859:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZG859&distinct_entry=true

ZG859 on a training sortie photographed from tanker during 2003:

http://www.warplane.co.uk/features/3sqn%20Harrier%20GR7%20ZG859.jpg

ZD323:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD323&distinct_entry=true

ZD323 Hangared. Look Flogger even aviation enthusiasts can gain access to hangars during airshows! Check out the list and also see some other listed airframes witnessed by aircraft enthusiasts.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/airnet/RIAT2001.html

ZD323 caught on camera flying through Wales by an aviation photographer in 2004:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/0/8/1/0552180.jpg

ZD330:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD330&distinct_entry=true

ZD330 caught on camera in Scotland. Coming into land with Maverick missiles from a weapons instructions sortie.

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/6/0/5/0969506.jpg

ZD376:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD376&distinct_entry=true

ZD376 photographed at RAF Marham during an anniversary photo call:

http://www.cavok-aviation-photos.net/Marham.html

http://www.jetphotos.net/images/z/ZD376.jpg.72789.jpg

ZD437:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD437&distinct_entry=true

ZD437 caught on a training sortie in Wales during 2005:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/3/6/2/0854263.jpg

ZD347:

http://www.myaviation.net/search/search.php?view=&regnr=ZD347

Imaged during 2005 on finals loaded with training bomb pods:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/5/2/0/0937025.jpg

ZD401:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD401&distinct_entry=true

ZD401 caught by aviation enthusiast in 2005 whizzing through the Lake District, UK:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/5/9/8/0782895.jpg

ZD431:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?cnsearch=P43&distinct_entry=true

Photographed in Scotland during 2005 by an aviation enthusiast/photographer:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/5/4/0/0970045.jpg

ZD352:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZD352&distinct_entry=true

ZD352 caught winging its way through Wales during 2005:

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/1/6/2/0854261.jpg

ZG503:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZG503&distinct_entry=true

ZG503 imaged in the US during a Red Flag exercise 2000:

http://www.sharpshooter-maj.com/html/bv08.htm

http://www.sharpshooter-maj.com/Images/bv13/gr7zg503.jpg

ZG504:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=ZG504&distinct_entry=true

ZG504 caught during 2004 by an aviation enthusiast at RAF Cottesmore. Note practice bomb pods.

http://photos.airliners.net/photos/photos/4/2/2/0546224.jpg

Flogger over to you. I don’t expect you to understand mate. This level of detail is completely alien to you and your mindset. What will you claim on the
Allied Force Harrier serials? Will it be the pot of paint theory still ongoing after seven years. Or will it be Clear War’s theory of money paid to the Serb
and Montenegro government to hide all the losses?

In the list you provided of Harriers has nothing to do with the list of Harrier deployed in 1999, in fact how we can know those are the alleged 16 aircraft you claim? there are plenty of only Harrier GR7s there were more than 16 Harrier GR7 built, in fact even some conversions from previous GR5s, i will tell you have not proved any thing beyond posting some few unrelated pictures.

It is like if i say these are the Su-27 that flew over Chechnya without any official proof, check there are even Harrier GR7 accident losses hehehehehe in that list

But the claim isn’t one Harrier (BTW, you haven’t matched a Harrier accident loss to a claimed shoot-down – I think that should be your first step), but a few dozen NATO aircraft lost. And you’ve offered no explanation of the complete lack of wreckage or bodies. SHOW US THE WRECKAGE! It still doesn’t fit Williams razor. You have to do a lot better, or you’ll fail Basic Logic (you’re currently in the remedial class, for slow learners). 😀

There were claims of a Harrier shot down, here are some pictures of an Israeli F-15`s HUD when it shot down a MiG-21 in the late 1970s.

I will simply say that if the Western media is so free they would not have any problem getting lot`s of HUD pictures but definitively you will see scarse evidence of western kills beyond very few pictures

P-X
Length:38 m
Wingspan:35 m
Height:12 m
Cruise Speed:830 km/h
Range:8000 km
Engines:4 × XF7-10
Flight Control System:Fly-by-light

C-X
Length:44 m
Wingspan:44 m
Height:14 m
Cruise Speed:890 km/h
Max. Payload:30 tonnes? 26 tonnes?
Range:6500 km (Range at any payload is unknown)
Engines:2 × CF6-80C2
Flight Control System:Fly-by-wire

2007 summer:P/C-X’s first test flight
2008-2009:4 P-X and 8 C-X will be delivered.

These are magnificent pictures specialy the P-X and C-X engine.

.

LOL Flogger. So from Venik’s evidence we have an “RAF Sea Harrier”

http://www.aeronautics.ru/fueltank01.htm

What colour is the paint on the fuel tank?

There are also images of Tornado fuel tanks and F-16 fuel tanks. You do realise that they can be combat-jettisoned?

Why do you think that a combat-jettisoned fuel tank results in the loss of the entire aircraft?

Of all those images of combat-jettisoned fuel tanks why is it that is all they can show?

My colour perception is way off (CP4) so it will need other posters to match up the scheme with an RAF/USMC know colour scheme.

Flogger, doesn’t it strike you as strange when you examine those claimed ‘bullet holes’? Equally spaced running in the vertical against a moving target. Equal spacing could simply result in a popped seam on the tank.

I saw this video way back in 1999. It was played over and over again on sat news stations. I would say combat-jettisoned fuel tank from RAF Harrier. Does that make it a combat loss. No! Flogger you are showing us your simple naivety as you did with the starboard engine nacelle from the A-10. A combat-jettisoned fuel tank does not make a combat loss of a whole aircraft.

Examine the date of this incident. Can you give me a corresponding Harrier GR.7 missing from the inventory? Flogger you fail time and time again. You do realise that every serial and construction number is known of all Harriers. Can you say the same for Soviet or Russian built aircraft?

RAF Harrier operations were in the limelight from media and aircraft spotters stationed in Italy. All returned safe and sound from combat ops and returned to the UK at the end of the conflict. The media interviewed them and filmed their returning aircraft when they arrived back in the UK. I think it was Air Pictorial that covered the returning Harriers listing all their serials. I’ll try and track it down for you this coming summer. Flogger where is the corresponding accident to cover up the loss of a Harrier in combat? Flogger, sorry mate, but your all encompassing ‘cover-up’ does not wash.

A tank riddled with bullets, well does not discard the possibility of the aircraft shot down, a claim of an accident in a war zone does not prove it was an accident specially if they show you pictures of the wreckages at the peak of that war.