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MiG-23MLD

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  • in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2492500
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    To read something and to understand something are two different worlds for someone. Whatever I do post of details, such a person is unable or at best unwilling to understand.
    For the benefit of the others from the official website of Sukhoi about the Su-24MK:

    Maximum flight speed at sea level (without external ordnance and stores), km/h 1,315
    Max Mach (without external ordnance and stores) 1.35

    Airspeed for Mach 1 at seal level in standard conditions (15°C) is 661 kt or
    1224 km/h. Max clean for the Su-24MK at sea level is 1315 km/h or Mach 1,07. The highest nominal speed of Mach 1,35 (clean!) is reached at height.
    The speed of Sound is 573 kt at 36090 feet or 1061 km/h at 11000 m (Tropopause)
    Max Mach number clean for the Su-24MK is Mach 1,35 or 1432 km/h.
    Below the link to verify my data:
    http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su24mk/lth/

    With some weapons-load the Su-24MK is in the subsonic or lower transsonic speed-range at all. So that is no setback, when the optimum attack-dash is ~600 kt and cruise/march below 500 kt. We keep in mind, that range/endurance is a severe limiting factor for a striker at low level, at least when it has to go with Tj like the Su-24MK. So the cold logic of Sukhoi is correct, when some fanboys got upset about that for funny reasons. It is their problem to deal with outdated Cold War claims. They do not realize, that the F-111 did fly similar missions at similar speeds too. The main difference is, that the Tf does allow longer range/endurance from every kg/l of fuel carried from the start.

    Yeah sukhoi claims a mach speed of 1400km/h that is correct, it is around mach 1.35 is not Mach 1.6 that was my mistake, however the Ukranian air force claims two different speeds, one is Mach 1.35 and the other is 2240km/h why the Ukranian air force claims two speeds? are they fan boys? we can call fan boys ourselves because you have never been a Su-24 technician or pilot have you?

    Also the Ukrainian air force claims two different ranges one is 2080km and the other 3800km why they have those distances?

    Possible explanation a mistake a typo or another possibility different conditions and different limits, the MiG-23 can each Mach 2.5 however the operational speed is mach 2,35.

    in reply to: Russia may sue China over pirated fighter #2492907
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Hi MiG. For proper translation you must also include the whole text. In short: to have joint statement on Anti-missile shield that is deployed in Europe, Russia was forced to “forget” the copyright issue, and that lead to Pogyosan to state that J-11B it’s not copy of Su-27, but just look like.
    Here is the whole article in russian(near the end of page): http://www.rusrand.ru/pubpoll/pubpoll_60.html

    Showtime 100 you didn’t tell me do you speak russian?

    i agree 100% with you, that is also what i understood and i believe you that pogyosan said taht they wanted to get on an agreement with the Chinese about the IP rights

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2492934
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    It does not make sense to do so.
    For the benefit of the others,
    The present jet-engines are in need of subsonic air (Mach 0,4 till Mach 0,7) to create thrust. No severe problem, when subsonic, but critical, when it has to be slow down from faster or supersonic air in the inlet. You need both at the same time, slower and still smooth air for your engine, no distorsion f.e.! There are many ways to achieve that, when it comes to supersonic inlets. For supersonic flight, the inlet-design is more important for thrust, than the engine itself.
    At subsonic the inlet gives 12% thrust (netto), the engine 82% and outlet 6%. At high supersonic the inlet gives 63% thrust (netto), the engine a mere 8% and the outlet 29%.
    The secret of the F-111 to reach up to Mach 2,5, despite “lower” installed thrust compared to the Su-24 is related to that. Not of practical value in military missions, but an excellent example, what can be achieved by an effective propulsion system and related performances.

    I see you were very specific you have given so specific facts about the inlet of the Su-24 such as graphs, charts and accurate data about the inlet performance in several flight envelopes

    yea very specific, Sens please do not try to cheat me, the Su-24 and F-111 both were designed with a Max speed of Mach 2.4 speed, the Su-24 had a multishock vg ramp in a racked and angled inlet nacelle of rectangular cross section ala MiG-23 or Tu-22M that makes an oblique shock wave.

    The inlet up to what i understand lost its multishock VG ramp and only left a ramp that still has the ability of making an oblique shockwave to disaccelerate the airflow to subsonic speed but lacks a multishock VG ramp to keep the shockwave ahead of the inlet lip and out of the inlet duct at higher supersonic speeds. in few words it still can make a shockwave but its design is not as effective to keep the shockwave ahead of the inlet lip as one with a VG ramp such as the early Su-24s.

    the VG ramp allows a wider range of speeds since it can create several shockwaves and reduce the air flow from higher supersonic speeds to subsonic speeds at different speeds.

    the F-16 has a similar inlet and the F-18 too, they still have a ramp but not a VG ramp to generate oblique shockwaves.

    Up to what degree the ramp slows down the air flow for a proper air flow to feed the engine well i do not know and since you do not present me with schematics of the operation of the Su-24`s inlet at Mach 2 without a ramp well i do not know what to think.

    Sukhoi says they max operational speed is 1.6, the Ukranian air force says Mach 2 and the f-16 has also a relatively small ramp ahead of the lower lip on the straight part of the D shape inlet.http://www.air-and-space.com/20051021%20AFFTC%20Museum.htm
    http://www.air-and-space.com/20051021%20Edwards/DSC_1134%20F-111A%2063-9766%20left%20front%20l.jpg
    The F-111 has a different inlet it has a Mirage III or SR-71 style inlet with a conical spike fore and aft within the engine nacelle, to keep the supersonic shock wave just in front of the inlet however depending on the F-111 variant some variants exhibit also a vertical ramp with a semi circular conical spike, the Su-24 had a multishock vg ramp in a racked and angled inlet nacelle of rectangular cross section ala MiG-23, Tu-22M or Su-15 that makes an oblique shock wave.
    This approach simplified the construction of the intakes and permitted the use of variable ramps to control the airflow into the engine.
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bomber/su24m/su24m-20.jpg

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2492994
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    New record, not a single sentence correct, when it comes to performance claims and related physics.
    Follow Schorsch advise simply, for the benefit of all.

    so if you are very knowledgeable why do not you give me all the details relating to the inlet design in specific of the Su-24 inlet and the AL-21 engine with details not suggestions of speculations that would be a very good step from you, bluffing is easy but proven you points beyond speculation and gloating well it is not more than intelectual cowboyism

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2492998
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Get a book about aircraft (preferably one of those without pictures) and read it.
    Static thrust has nothing to do with supersonic thrust, the only thing we can guess from it is the region. F-111, Tornado and Su-24 play in one league, but the F-16 is two leagues higher.
    Flow distortion is no problem as long as we fly straight ahead, and actually only the early engines and the A-model was affected. No problem on the F version.

    The key word is “pressure recovery factor”.
    Recommendation: Copy&Paste into Google, see what you find.

    Schorsch

    Since the moment i said the inlet is the main factor to judge if the Su-24 can or can not reach Mach 2 i know even the basics to say the AL-21 needs pressure recovery, since the engine demands the less drag possible and a specific flow of air.

    The F-16 as the Su-24 won`t fly Mach 2 at low altitude, so certainly they will fly at mach 2 at similar conditions and not at low altitude, the inlet design and the engine in the F-16 are flexible enough to accept the flow conditions in the inlet to work properly, the F-16 does not need a VG ramp inlet to work well, the Ukranian air force webpage and some other sources claim a speed of Mach 2, the same speed the F-16 can reach at 12000 meters of altitude and certainly besides the F-16`s inlet is of D shape and the Su-24 is of rectangular shape, they are not very different from each other creating shock waves to disaccelerate the air flow to subsonic speeds.

    Besides military turbofans are low by pass ratio engines not very different from turbojets after all

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493308
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Given the installed static thrust it fairly unlikely it can reach more than the mentioned Mach 1.6 clean, with remaining pylons and self defense missiles we are at Mach 1.3 and any useful payload will keep it at high subsonic.

    The F-16 has a dedicated intake for a wide Mach area, while the Suchoi has a fixed VG intake, which is by that optimized for lower Mach numbers. It will have tremendous pressure loss at speeds beyond Mach 1.5, much more than the F-16 intake.

    Of course this was highly speculative of my part, so i can not even argue it too much, since i have not any proven evidence the Su-24 can reach Mach 2.0 with inlets without any moveable ramps ( the Ukranian air forces says mach 2 but this might be simply the early prototypes or a mistake independently it is true or not).
    I do not think its the thrust, the F-111 has even less thrust (worst thrust to weight ratio) and can reach 2.5, but i wonder if the AL-21 could work under those conditions with a fixed ramp inlet like the F-100 can at Mach 2 i mean if the inlet allows that ideal air flow rate for its air pressure ratio and if the AL-21 is also able to accept such flow distortions if indeed it can reach Mach 2 with its fixed inlet

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493418
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Yefim Gordon’s Aerofax book has:

    Su-24M
    MTOW – 39700 kg
    Empty – 22300 kg
    Payload: 8000 kg
    Leaves 9400 kg for fuel

    Fuel is carried in three internal tanks
    No. 1: 3220 L (some early series SU-24 had 2220 L)
    No. 2: 2950 L
    No. 3: 4890 L
    Total: 11060 L x 0.785 = 8682 kg

    Looks about right.

    In 1975 they locked the inlets on the earlier Su-24 – this saved maintenance and 236 kg weight. Maximum speed was limited as a result.

    Note the Sukhoi link: http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su24mk/lth/ says 11060 kg, but it also has:
    11,200 kg engine thrust in full power (actually 7800 kg per engine)
    111,200 kg afterburner thrust! (actually 11,200 kg per engine)

    It seems the the ideal max operational speed is Mach 1.6, however the Ukranian air force claims it can reach close to Mach 2.

    the F-16 has a fixed inlet and can reach Mach 2, the Su-24 has inlets designed originally with VG geometry ramps, perhaps some users still use the Su-24 to a top speed of Mach 2 because originally the Su-24 was desigend to reach Mach 2.4 then the need for VG inlets.

    I think the Su-24 can reach Mach 2 with fixed geometry inlets but the manufacturer recommends a max operational speed of Mach 1.6 to extend the operational life of the Su-24, perhaps a user like the Ukranian air force pushes the Su-24 up to speed of Mach 2.

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493516
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Someone is very confused. No idea to use the correct density value for internal and external.
    At first the Su-24 had two wet-stations only. So max total possible is ~20000 litre and the range claim of 2775 km from producer.
    A third one came as an option for UPAZ (inflight refuelling pod-capable) or do add 2000 litre to a total of ~22000 litre.
    What does not make any sense in a ferry flight.
    Which may bring the ferry range from 2775 km to around 3000 km at best, when dropped empty after take-off as soon as possible.
    All other data are bad guesses.
    Not ashamed to post such ridiculous nonsense?
    The known empty weight of the Su-24M is?
    Every tried to get that sites corrected about that?

    The Air Force
    Bombing aircrafts
    SU-24М
    Take-off weight – 26 tons

    Maximum speed – 2240 kmph

    Service ceiling – 17100 m.

    Range – 3800 km

    Armament:

    Missiles -R-60М, Х-23, Х-25, Х-58
    Bombs – 8 tons
    Guns – GSh-30

    You do not like what the Ukranian official armed forces webpage claims because it does not fit you point of view i know this contradict all your claims and i will tell you why.

    Sukhoi claims the Su-24 can carry 11100kg in internal fuel and has a ferry range with two fuel tanks of 3000 liters each of 2775km however they never give the ferry range with three fuel tanks

    We took the 3050km range from other russian websites but these websites do have different fuel capacity not 11100kgs but 9800kg

    Now airwar.ru claims the tanker version of the Su-24 can carry 9000kg in payload fuel, this is much more than 8000 liters or three fuel tanks ( two of 3000 liters and one of 2000 liters.)

    Now the 3800km range comes from the Ukranian armed forces official webpage in english, it is an official webpage from an user, so it is as realible as the webpage of the manufacturer`s
    See that we do not know at what speed the Su-24 can achieve those ranges

    26 tons still is a take off weight since the Su-24 empty weight is 22 tons see that the Ukranian air force also gives a max take off weight of 39tons not like sukhoi which claims a heavier take off weight.

    The speed is a bit confusing because the Su-24 is known to have an operational max speed of Mach 1.6 or around 1700 km/h if you see in the Ukranian version they give a Max speed of Mach 1.2 or 1400km/h so that is not the max speed but the sea level speed and in the english version the Ukranian air force gives a speed of almost Mach 2.1 however i have posted you a Russian page that seems to be a manual page with an speed of 2120km/h

    With this i am not saying the page is of a Su-24 manual page but it looks like one.

    The speed can be said is just a posibility since the F-16 has a fixed geometry inlte and still can reach Mach 2, so why a Su-24 won`t do the same? or simply the Ukranians give the mach 2.1 speed obtained during flight tests of early prototypes

    All of this proves you Sens that we do not have the whole picture just taking sukhoi`s information since they do not give all the information.

    the reality you can say either sukhoi`s webpage has a typo or the Ukranian one has one or both have been deliverately different to confuse analists however we can say there is not too much uniformity in the Su-24 data even between one official user like is the Ukranian air force and Sukhoi

    in reply to: Russia may sue China over pirated fighter #2493654
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Do you speak russian?

    What i say is for this particular interview. Can you give me a link to russian reports you talk about.

    Pesho since i believe you speak russian can you translate this part correctly since i done it but probably it is posible i did not do it well

    В обмен России пришлось отказаться от претензий по поводу копирования и запуска в производство образцов военной техники, которую китайцы производят по российской лицензии. Гендиректор компании «Сухой» Михаил Погосян убеждал журналистов, что новый китайский истребитель J11B вовсе не является аналогом российского Су-27, а просто на него похож. Не шла речь и о повышении пошлин на китайский импорт в Россию, хотя все последние годы он рос втрое быстрее, чем российский экспорт в Китай, и положительное сальдо в $5 млрд в 2003 году сменилось к 2007-му отрицательным в $8,5 млрд. Медведев назвал лишь общие цифры: $40 млрд товарооборота сейчас и $60 млрд к 2010 году или даже раньше.

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493672
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    He refers to the fact that using my very primitive assessment the Suchoi achieve 2136/2839 = 75% of the F-111’s range.

    Have fun with relative numbers.
    The statements
    The Suchoi 24 achieves 25% less range than the F-111.
    or
    The F-111 achieves 33% more range than the Suchoi 24.
    are equal.
    People not used to math easily get tricked by relative numbers with unknown basis. Very popular with media and politicians, as you can basically let look any number very small or very huge, depending on the point you want to make.

    As I said, my calculation does not have any direct connection to reality, it only displays the effect of SFC and slightly different fuel load on range for similar weights and L/Ds.
    The SFCs I gave, however, resemble the reality pretty good.

    here is a interesting webpage it is the Ukranian air forces page in this they claim the following

    The Air Force
    Bombing aircrafts
    SU-24М
    Take-off weight – 26 tons

    Maximum speed – 2240 kmph

    Service ceiling – 17100 m.

    Range – 3800 km

    Armament:

    Missiles -R-60М, Х-23, Х-25, Х-58
    Bombs – 8 tons
    Guns – GSh-30

    Clearly this as Sukhoi can be called reliable sources, the Ukrainian air force claims the Su-24 can reach up to 3800km, Sukhoi claims the Su-24Mk has a range of 2775 with two fuel tanks, is it possible this is with three fuel tanks? and perhaps this is a more realistic range with total external fuel

    http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=en&part=armament&sub=air_force

    In ukrainian they have other data but might be with other conditions
    see

    Повітряні Сили
    Бомбардувальна авіація
    Су-24М
    максимальна злітна вага – 39700 кг.
    максимальна швидкість – 1400 км/год.
    практична стеля – 11500 м.
    дальність польоту – 2080 км
    озброєння:
    ракети -Р-60М, Х-23,Х-25, Х-28, Х-29, Х-58, Х-59
    бомби – 8 т.
    гармата – ГШ-6 – 23 м/500 сн

    http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?part=armament&lang=ua&sub=vps

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493818
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    The SFC has already been considered in my calculation, but the L/D ratio was presumed as similar.

    Dear Sens:

    The fuel capacity I used previously was 11883 liter (excharge to 9764kg)~almost .82kg/L

    Now the key is a comparison of the size of AL-21 engine, if you see what I mean.:)

    Frank there is a Su-24 variant that carries a lot of fuel, the is the Su-24 tanker version.

    http://aeroweb.lucia.it/rap/MAKS97/mak97ag_su24_30.jpg

    Полезная нагрузка: 9000 кг топлива this variant can carry a payload of 9000kg in fuel, it uses the Upaz air refueling system and two tanks of 3000 liters each, but still it has a max range of 2800km

    http://www.airwar.ru/enc/craft/su24mt.html
    http://worldweapon.ru/images/sam/su24/su24_23.jpg
    http://worldweapon.ru/images/sam/su24/su24_23.jpg

    http://worldweapon.ru/images/sam/su24/su24_16_shema.jpg

    Топливо
    внутренние топливо, кг 9800
    внутренние топливо, л 13000
    ПТБ 4 х 1250 или 2 х 3000

    the most interesting of all is thet Sukhoi data does not agree with most of russian webpages that claim 9800kg of internal fuel or 13000 liters

    http://www.avia-su.ru/su24.php

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493914
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    For our “translation experts”, which never got the idea, that some mistakes can happen even in Russian books and websites, when ignoring some important details.
    Ever heard of US gallon and IMP, when it comes to gallons?!
    One is ~3,79 l , when the other is ~4,55 l.
    Kg can not be mistaken.

    Sukhoi gives an official 11100 kg of internal fuel for the Su-24MK.
    A typical specific weight of fuel is ~0,78 kg per litre, when it can between 0,75 till 0,8.
    11100*0,78 = 14230 litre
    11100*0,77 = 14416 litre
    11100*0,76 = 14605 litre

    Our “translation expert” Gordon gives 3188 gallon.
    The US value of that is 12083 litre or 9424 kg.
    The British value of that is 14505 litre or 11168 kg at 0,77 specific by rounded value of IMP.
    Just for the benefit of the others.

    That is correct but you forget he does not give a value of 22000 liters but just merely 20060 liters you forget that small detail, he is not giving the same amount of liters, the only webpage that gives a value of 16440kg is airbase.ru and which probably gets closer to the values you give but still falls a little bit shorter depending in the fuel density you use.

    it will be either 20550 liters or 21372 liters however Yefim Gordon gives like Airwar.ru a 20060 liters capability not 22000 as you calculated and he also gives like airbase ru a max fuel weight of 16400kg

    now he gives an internal fuel weight of 9800kg too, we could say he is wrong and the Sukhoi`s value of 11100kg plus the fuel tanks is around 19000kg however it is too weird the vast majority of russian webpages and books do give less litters than you do as total fuel capacity

    See that Sukhoi gives only a ferry range with two external fuel tanks, that is probably a weight of at least 5500kg extra in external fuel tanks if Gordon and airbase.ru are correct however we do not know if that is 3 external fuel tanks or only two well that is just a guess, also if Sukhoi does not say with three fuel tanks probably also we do not know if it is only 3050km of range as airwar ru claims and other russian webpages.

    So most of all our guessings are just guesses and we do not know if we have to consider airwar.ru in range and weight or only Sukhoi`s data.

    So as a conclusion without more data from sukhoi or the Su-24 manual we can not know exact data, in reality we are still guessing

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493933
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    That in mind, you are absolute correct. Otherwise it is a waste of time to do, when some do question physics even.
    Sukhoi gives 30° till 60° related to weight for cruise. Minimum sweep of 16° is for take-off and landing only or a slow fly-over. It has a high-wing load to stay low and fast for some time, but has to be flown relative fast most of the time therefore.

    You values might be correct but still contradict the values given by Yefim Gordon, airwar.ru and Airbase.ru, basicly we are all guessing, so do not be so sure to affirm the Su-24 carries 22000 liters and give other specualation as how aerodynamic is the Su-24, in reality all our specualations can fit our guessings if we want but all of this is highly hypothetical and therefore wrong even your specualation the Su-24 carris more than 20000 liters in fuel

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2493937
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    MiG, I’d prefer accept the result Schorsch given. The final data s/he given was more closer to my opnion and reach the reality much more. I can’t see why it is impossible that the range of Su-24 by internal fuel only is 75% of Aardvark.

    Franc you are correct in one way, all the values here present are basicly aproximations, why? niether Sens or Schorsch or me or you have the real aproximation in liters the Su-24 has if we see the different values

    All are guessings, Schorsch is guessing and Sens is guessings why? because no one has the Su-24 manual to know the exact number of liters it carries.

    Sukhoi for example claims the Su-24 carries 11100kg of fuel internal and airbase.ru says the total fuel capacity is 16400kg this is probably the closest aproximation to the real weight in fuel to Sukhoi`s internal fuel value.

    Airwar.ru gives a max internal fuel and external fuel capacity of of around 19000 liters.
    Yefim Gordon in several books a value of 3188 gallons of fuel or 12666 liters for the Su-24 and 11830 liters for the Su-24M in his book OKB Sukhoi, he gives a total a figure very close to airwar.ru in his book Su-24 Fencer of 20060 liters including three fuel tanks.

    Now if Sens is correct the Su-24 must carry a max of 22000 liters, however this contradicts the value given by Yefim Gordon, if we use the values given by Airbase ru depending in the fuel density we are going to get different values at a fuel density of 0.75 we get something in the range of 21865 liters, if we get a higher value we might get a 20555 liters if we use a higher value as Schorsch is using of 0.80, so the reality airwar ru probably is not so far off .

    Sens values are just guessings and do not represent the real figure if yefim gordon is correct as well as airbase.ru and airwar.ru, so it is still possible the relation is not as high as quoted by schorsch and Sens it is still probable the Su-24 has a SFC and L/D of 1.17 with respect the F-111 giving it a slightly worst L/D quoficient

    in reply to: Su-24 vs F-111 #2494057
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Let’s keep them simply, unified all of units to liter.

    2271 liters is the capacity of each external fuel tank F-111 could carry.
    19112 liters is the internal fuel capacity F-111 carried

    11883 liters is the internal fuel capacity carried by Su-24
    3000 liters is the capacity that each external fuel tanks under wing glove of Su-24 contains

    so we have those data fella:
    Su-24 had internal fuel + external fuel = 11883 + 3000 * 2 = 17883 liters
    F-111 got merely internal fuel 19112 liters, which still be greater than 17883 to 19112-17883=1229liters (about900-950kg)

    please pay attetion to such little 1229 liters fuel won’t cause so many gap of range between F-111 and Su-24, if the fuel consumption of engines these two jets fitted are similar. Noticed we had the 0.8 of Aardvark vs 0.76 of Fencer or 0.67 of Aardvark vs 0.76 of Fencer.

    If all of other conditions are same, then 1229/19112, we got 0.064 which means, the F-111’s range will only be longer than Su-24 6.4%.

    If the SFC of engine F-111 used is 0.8, then [0.8-0.76]/0.8=0.05=5%, this will almost counteract the most of 6.4% longer range F-111 originally had. But if we used 0.67, then the advantage of range F-111 gained will be enlarged to 12%+6.4%=18.4%

    The 18.4% is very much closer to the real gap of range 23%. The 23% come from [4700km -3600km]/4700km, if you insist the range of F-111 merely with internal fuel is 4700km. Where the rest 4.6% goes? I give it to the drag Su-24’s external fuel tanks brought. If you guys insist the range of F-111 will be 5777km, I would also like to accept this data, then we will get 36.8% of advantage. 36.8-18.4=18.4 which will satisfied somebody who insist the drag coefficient external fuel tanks brought will be 20%. I think 18.4% is more reasonable for the EFT’s drag coefficient.

    Now we’ve done, each aspect can accept. The range of Su-24 even with two EFTs only reach 2/3 of F-111 can do with internal fuel only.
    If we presumed both F-111 and Su-24 without external fuel tank, then 2775km range of Su-24 is reliable, so under this condition, then range of Su-24 will be only half range of F-111. 1/3 will be absolutely unacceptable.

    Franc

    I will be absolutedly honest with you, sukhoi qoutes a max internal fuel capacity of 11100kg see

    Максимальный запас топлива во внутренних баках, кг 11100
    Maximum internal fuel, kg 11,100

    they do not mention how many liters it really carries internally a guessing as Sens said is close to 14000 liters, the Su-24 can carry three fuel tanks, however Sukhoi quotes a ferry range with only two fuel tanks
    Ferry flight range with 2xPTB-3000 external fuel tanks, km:
    – with PTB external fuel tanks dropped 2,775

    http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su24mk/lth/
    the vast majority of Russian sources and books i have say the Su-24 has an internal capability of around 9000 liters

    see Запас топлива, л 11700
    http://aviaros.narod.ru/su-24m.htm

    Топливо
    внутренние топливо, л 9800
    ПТБ, л до 6610

    see airwar ru quotes around 15000 liters

    http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bomber/su24mk.html

    however Airbase.ru goes along with Sukhoi a quotes a fuel weight of 16000kg

    Массы и нагрузки
    Су-24 Су-24М
    Масса, кг пустого 22320 22300
    топлива 16440 16440
    максимальная взлётная 39700

    http://airbase.ru/hangar/planes/russia/su/su-24/
    However i have read also that the Russians were aware of the fact the F-111 has a much longer range but this was unimportant since the Russians had a different military doctrine.

    in my opinion the Su-24 might have an engine with a real SFC of 0.76 as quoted by the russian sources however its lift and LD ratio limit the aircraft and it uses the engines in different ways the F-111 does, and as sadly it might sound for a fan of the Su-24 like i am it is true what Sens and Schorsch are saying, the general performance of the Su-24 makes it spend much more fuel.

    In fact i just read that the Russians were aware of that short coming of the Su-24 and they wanted to build the Su-24MM with an AL-31 however the inlets were so narrow and they did not allow enough air for the engine

    Но АЛ-31Ф отличался намного большим расходом воздуха через компрессор, и для них пришлось сделать третий воздухозаборник над фюзеляжем, выглядевший довольно необычно. За это Су-24ММ на фирме получил прозвище “мертворожденный монстр”, которое оказалось пророческим – вскоре и эта программа была прекращена. На этот раз в пользу ударных модификаций одного из самых удачных самолетов ОКБ – Су-27.
    But the AL-31F differed too much and had a larger flow of air through the compressor, and they had to make a third airlet over the fuselage, which looked quite unusual. For this, Su-24MM at the firm received the nickname “still-born monster”, which proved prophetic – and soon the programme was discontinued in favor of a modification one of the most successful aircraft Su-27 (the SU-27IB).
    http://esoul.ru/uploads/posts/1146154799_su32_300.jpg
    http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bomber/su24m.html

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