The old PL-8 is a license of the Python 3, but the PL-8B is something else. This is derived from the PL-9C, so the only thing it resembles to the Python is the body. The range is extended from 15km to 22km. It now has a liquid nitrogen cooled seeker with a four element array with each element looking at a different wavelength. It now sets on a gimball with a greater FOV (up to 60 degs boresight, probably similar or copied of the one in the R-73) and will work with a helmet sight.

The Python V or even IV are superior to the R-73 and even more to the PL-9 or PL-8.

The SD-10 can not compete with the AIM-120C of 105 km of range

SD-10 is comparable to the current AMRAAM. PL-8 is not Python 5 but it is a copy of the Python 3 and as such a weapon to respect. Meteor will be a different story, but still, the J-10 is clearly not completely outclassed, is it?

Prove it. You’ve failed to do so thus far.

The J-10 is larger, heavier, and has different geometry than the Lavi. It will not have the same performance because a Russian told you it came from Israel. Try again.

So i have to believe you? yeah SOC i prefer to believe a Russian and Israeli news papers than You or any one else here, why? simple no nation knows more about the J-10 in the world than Russia after China why? simply they modified the jet.

The J-10 has Russians systems so the Russians worked in the J-10 directly contrary to you who just speculate and accept a false history of the J-10.

If you ask me who i will listen i will say the Russians and not you when it comes to the Lavi/J-10 connection and if the Jerusalem post and Haaretz also accept that well man i do not believe you.:D 😉

It does not surprise me that you picked the least relevant part of my message. F-35, Osprey, whatever… don’t distract attention from what is important…

Wishful thinking. Specs of J-10 haven’t been released yet.

What’s BIP?

According to what i have read in Russian websites, the J-10 falls in a niche between the JAS-39 and F-16 however it is considered faster than both designs with a quoted speed of Mach 2.2 but by just seen its max take off weight and thrust to weight ratio it must be in the class of an F-16 in terms of performance

The J-10 is totally out matched in terms of air to air missiles but it has to be more or less as agile as a Gripen or even close to the Eurofighter in terms of sustained and instantaneous turn rate due to a similar roll rate.

I guess in avionics is also between an F-16 block 30.

The reliability of its systems well is where probably it might not be so good.

In my humble opinion the Eurofighter might be better but not for much in fact i think a well flown J-10 might kill a Eurofighter if both aircraft have similar weapons

So which parts are you disagreeing with? Or do you think Boeing could easily do away with the Chinese market and expect to keep pace with Airbus who would still be operating in China?

The Europeans have one of the best aviation industries in the world, do you not agree? If they wanted to, they can easily and quickly replace all American parts in Airbus aircraft with European content. For a market the size of China’s, its well worth their while to invest in some engines and other parts to capture such a huge market.

But they still sell well. 😉

Also, do you not realise you are supporting my point with that remark? Since the Chinese sell so few civilian aircraft, and none to the US market, loosing the US market will mean next to nothing to them. The loss of Boeing airframe contracts would be more then made up for by Airbus or domestic contracts.

It is America who stands to loose out with such an unwise move, plain and simple.

Clearly you have no grasp of economics. People and companies try to maximise their utility, and that can be assumed as profit.

If its cheaper to buy off the shelf, then people and companies will buy off the shelf instead of wasting money trying to make their own; corporate espionage is far from a exclusive Chinese activity; and surely even you would grasp the economics behind making something as cheap as possible?

China have been making tanks and armoured vehicals for decades, so I say its safe to assume they can make a car that can pass a crash test. The company did not do so to save costs. If safety is such a big concern, people will stop buying that model and car, and so it will be in the company’s interest to make a safer model at a higher price. Again, China is far from unique in doing this. Every major car manufacturer has had a similar start in the past. Japanese and Korean cars were considered cheap and unsafe when they first broken into the American and European markets. OTTOH, Ford was taken to the cleaners because they did a review and decided that it was economical to put a car with a nasty tendency to burst into flames onto the market as it was instead of improving the design as it was more ‘economical’ to take the projected deaths.

But we digress.

Can China build aircraft in the class of the Boeing 777, Boeing 787 or A-350 or A-380? answer is not
For Airbust there is a big problem the Euro is getting quit expensive so selling aircrat is becoming more difficult.

is china the only country where Airbus or Boeing can outsource technology? answer is not in fact there are safer countries to invest that have less risk and these are India, Mexico, Brazil, Turkey in fact China is risky because they usually try to break the licenses and created their illegal copies.

already Brazil exports a great % of aircraft parts to the US and Mexico builds helicopter fuselages for the US army

Hawker Beechcraft (HBC) inaugurated. its manufacturing operations of
light-sheet-metal parts for the aeronautic sector, after investing
US$10 million and generating 250 jobs including both technicians and
administrative staff.

The Company currently has 200 employees and will require 500 more in
the medium term, according to information provided.

HBC opened its plant in Chihuahua to keep a competitive position in
the world market and sustain the development of a suppliers’ chain
that will fulfill current and future needs of its operations in
Wichita, Kansas.
source http://www.maquilaportal.com/cgi-bin/public/board.pl?klie=5

Let us see first is there is a possibility China does sell weapons to Iran even in recent months

here are some articles
Afghanistan: U.S. Worried Iran Sending Chinese Weapons To Taliban
September 14, 2007 (RFE/RL) — U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte says Washington has complained to Beijing about Chinese weapons shipments to Iran that appear to be turning up in the hands of Taliban fighters in Afghanistan.
Negroponte confirmed the U.S. concerns over China’s weapons deals with Tehran after a 10-ton weapons cache was discovered in the western Afghan province of Herat.

http://www.payvand.com/news/07/sep/1177.html

Chinese aviation industry official says the country is introducing a new batch of military equipment to the international market. This includes an FBC2 fighter-bomber, an upgraded version of its JH7A fighter, intended for export.

China is now promoting its FBC2 and J10A fighters to Iran. The J10A was officially offered on the overseas market this year, but under the name FC20. The new generation YJ6-2 and C802A anti-ship missiles are also being promoted to Middle East countries including Iran. Sudan is reportedly seeking to acquire FC1 fighters from China.

As China faces an ever greater demand for energy, it is importing more crude oil from West Asian countries in recent years. It is also exerting greater political and military influence upon this region through expanded sales of military weapons. The long shadow of Chinese weapons has fallen over all six Gulf countries, and continues to do so. Iran has already become an important source of oil for China, as well as a key target market for China’s arms exports.

Not only does the Iranian military have operational Chinese-made QW1 and FM80 ground-to-air missiles, they are also producing batches of the missiles within their country. Iran seems to have upgraded the QW1, or Mithaq-1, to Mithaq-2. The exterior structure of the newer missile seems to be different from the QW2 portable missiles. The FM80’s Iranian name is Shahab Thaqueb. This is the first time for China to export such ground-to-air missiles to another country.

As for cooperation between Iran’s navy and China’s missile industry, it is widely known that Iran has acquired C802 anti-ship missiles from China. Iran has also started manufacturing its own ship-to-ship and land-to-ship versions of these missiles.

China first exported 200 of the C802 missiles to Iran in 1998. They were later renamed “Noor” by Iran. During the same period of time, the Iranian Navy also imported 10 Houdong (Thondor) class missile fast attack craft, each armed with four units of C802 missiles.

A second agreement on naval cooperation was finalized in 2000. According to the agreement between the two countries, Iran will eventually acquire a total of 10 “China Cat” missile fast attack craft, each of which will be fitted with 4 FL-10 serial ship-to-ship missiles produced by Hongdu Group Ltd. Iran will also build more “China Cat” missile fast attack craft indigenously. The Iranian Navy also plans to purchase LY60 ship-to-air missiles.

In addition to the above programs, the exterior and structure of a number of Iran’s other advanced weapon systems seem to connect them with China. For instance, the Iranian edition SHKVAL-E heavy-duty torpedo that made its appearance in recent naval exercises has caught the attention of military observers. Only Russia, Ukraine and China have the technologies to produce this type of torpedo. Kazakhstan had the capability to assemble this torpedo during the Soviet Union years and exported 40 such torpedoes to China. A source from the Russian military industry says that they did not transfer similar production technologies to Iran.

At the same time it has been exporting large batches of arms to Iran, China has also received huge business opportunities in Iran as well as a stable oil supply. Chinese companies are not only actively involved in the construction of an underground railroad system in Tehran, but are also helping Iran to develop its oil resources.

China’s oil imports from the Middle East now make up as much as 40 percent of the country’s total oil purchases. In the first quarter of 2006, from Iran alone China imported 377,000 barrels of oil per day. China’s total imports of oil from Iran in 2005 rose to more than 14 million tons, amounting to a little over 11 percent of China’s annual oil imports.

Solid military cooperation between the two countries has guaranteed a stable trade between China and Iran, which is very much immune to changes in the international situation. Iran has also agreed to supply China with 3 million tons of liquidized natural gas annually over the next 25 years, lifting the total export to 75 million tons. Bilateral trade between Iran and China has reached US$7 billion annually.

Other Chinese weapon systems in operational service in the Iranian armed forces include 100 Type 59 tanks, 100 Type 54 122-mm howitzers and 24 J7M fighters.

Saudi Arabia has become China’s single biggest source of oil supply. Since 1980s, China has been actively promoting military weapons to this country. In 1988, China exported to Riyadh 40-50 1,700-km-ranged DF3 ground-to-ground missiles and 10 sets of towed launchers.

In 2000, observers of Middle East military affairs said that Saudi Arabia hoped China would help upgrade these missiles so as to enhance their strike accuracy.

Pakistan has been promoting Al-Khalid main battle tanks to Saudi Arabia for two consecutive years. It plans to deliver the MBT directly to Riyadh for testing within this year.

Last year, two Saudi ground force delegations visited Pakistan and field-tested this MBT. The Al-Khalid MBT specifically targeted at Saudi Arabia is equipped with the thermal imaging system produced by the French SAGEM Company. Saudi Arabia will need at least 150 of the tanks, totaling around US$600 million.

This Al-Khalid MBT was jointly developed by Pakistan and China. An authoritative source from Islamabad says that the promotion of the K8 trainer to Saudi Arabia is what China and Pakistan feel most confident about. China and Pakistan have jointly promoted to Egypt 80 K8 trainers and have sold Egypt the production technology of the aircraft.

In 2005, bilateral trade between China and Saudi Arabia reached US$16 billion, in which China’s exports to Saudi Arabia were valued at US$3.82 billion. At present, China is importing 1.9 million barrels of oil from Saudi Arabia every day. In 2005 Saudi Arabia exported to China a total of 22 million tons of oil, mainly used as China’s strategic energy reserve.

Oman is China’s fifth largest source of oil. It exported 10 million tons of crude oil to China in 2005, approximately 8.5 percent of China’s total oil imports in that year. With China’s increased demand for oil, China’s promotion of military weapon systems to Oman is also becoming more active. Around 2001, Chinese arms successfully penetrated the Oman market. In that year, NORINCO exported to Oman six sets of Type 90A rocket guns, and later NORINCO also promoted to the Oman Royal Guards a new batch of Type 90B rocket launchers.

Almost during the same period of time, NORINCO sold to the Oman Royal Guards around 50 WMZ551 wheeled armored vehicles, which was the first time for China to export wheeled armored vehicles to the Middle East Region.

The United Arab Emirates is one of the key target markets of China’s arms promotion in the Middle East region. The UAE was in fact the first country to use the Chinese made HJ8A anti-tank missiles. Around 2003, NORINCO exported to UAE one 23-mm rapid-fire gun for testing purposes. In 2005, UAE exported to China 2.5 million tons of crude oil, which made up about 2 percent of China’s total oil imports.

China was also one of the first countries to target Kuwait’s rebuilding of its military machine. China’s most successful promotion of arms to Kuwait was the deal of 27 sets of PLZ45 155-mm self-propelled guns in 2000. These self-propelled guns were delivered to Kuwait in two different batches, totaling 54. In 2005, China imported 1.6 million tons of oil from Kuwait, approximately 1.3 percent of China’s total oil imports.

In 2005, Yemen exported to China 6.8 million tons of crude oil, which makes up 5.4 percent of China’s total oil imports, and Yemen is China’s sixth largest source of oil. In recent years, China’s financial loans to Yemen and economic aid have also increased. In 1989, North Yemen purchased 6 J7 fighters from China. At present, thanks to rapid economic recovery, Yemen is expanding its navy and air force arsenals. Yemen has ordered a batch of the latest version of MiG29SMT fighters from Russia.

It can be concluded that China is using arms sales and oil development as its leverage to further strengthen its relations with oil-rich countries in West Asia, and at the same time stepping up efforts to sell more arms to most of the six Gulf countries.

source

http://www.upiasiaonline.com/people/2007/10/26/analysis_west_asian_oil_for_chinese_arms/

How gives a f**k about your Russian and Israeli media.

Wanna wager them against AFP (Agencie France Presse).

Or how about the International Herald Tribune.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/29/asia/AS-GEN-China-Israel-Iran.php

Israeli foreign minister visits Beijing in bid for new sanctions on Iran

Here is Forbes reporting the Israeli PM visit to China to impose sanctions to Iran.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2007/10/18/afx4233724.html

Why are you selling J-10s to Iran when you are planning SANCTIONS against Iran?

You just cannot face the fact of your irresponsible Russian sources because it means to everyone reading in this forum, that your sources are worth their weight in the material you put in the toilet.

Yeah crobato it must means that russia is not helping Iran in the building of the nuclear reactor uhmm but still Russia is imposing sanctions uhmmm funny, this a poor attempt to create the image all these countries share the same point of view, ah by the way it must mean the US directs the foreign policy of China and Russia:rolleyes:

On Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin assured Iran that Moscow would not back out of a 1 billion U.S. dollar contract to complete a nuclear power plant in the Iranian port of Bushehr. Putin’s remarks followed talks with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at a summit of Caspian Sea nations in Tehran. The United States and other Western nations oppose the construction of the reactor, and believe that it is part of an effort by Iran to develop nuclear weapons.

Putin said that although revisions to the contract were necessary in order to clarify the legal and financial obligations of the two sides, Russia intends to go forward with the project. “Russia has clearly stated that it’s going to complete this work,” Putin said. “We are not renouncing this obligation.”

Iran’s nuclear program has been the subject of much recent controversy. The United States, France, and other Western nations oppose the program, saying Iran is using it as a cover for the development of nuclear weapons. Iran maintains that its reactor will only be used to generate nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. Putin supported the Iranian view in his remarks, referring to Iran’s “peaceful nuclear program”.

Although Putin promised to complete the reactor, he avoided specifying a timetable. Russia claims that construction on the nuclear reactor has been delayed because Iran is behind in payments. Iran claims that its payments are up to date, and that the delays are a result of Russia bowing to Western pressure.
sourcehttp://www.huliq.com/38355/putin-promises-to-complete-irans-nuclear-reactor

Ah i know Israel is not trying to press China not to sell weapons or they are not

I love it. Now the only press in the world is in Russia. What happened to the Israeli press you hid behind. Western news reported that China was going to buy those bombers too. So are you delusional in believing the Russian media is the only reliable source of information in the entire world. Now you back track and defend a dictatorship in Russia. Hide behind democracy and that doesn’t work. Now you hypocritically hide behind Russia’s dictatorship and media as if it has integrity. You’re just goose-stepping those feet into your mouth all the time.

No man i am not defending Russia or any media at all that is where you are wrong, i am just showing you what they say, and as i showed to you the Israeli media claims that, of course in your speech you fail to see a thing i said, and that is what i said only time will tell if China indeed did sell or did not sell J-10s to Iran however a denial it is not an utter and 100% reliable proof, that is what i clearly said.

Here is you the only one that wants to follow on the Chinese official statement, i did clearly say that the most likely China won`t sell the J-10s to Iran but since it is too early only time will tell if the chinese statement is true or not.

why then you get up set? clearly is because you want to devalidate the israeli and russian statements, but it is a matter of time to prove statements;) but this won`t change what the Russians or Isralies publish or what the West thinks about the chinese media.