China denies reports it will sell fighter jets to Iran
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/25/asia/AS-GEN-China-Iran-Fighter-Jets.php

China denies reports it will sell fighter jets to Iran
The Associated Press
Published: October 25, 2007

BEIJING: China denied Thursday published reports it had agreed to sell its homegrown fighter jets to Iran, saying no talks had taken place.

Reports in Russian and Israeli media said Iran had signed a deal with China to purchase two dozen of its home-designed fighter jets known as the J-10, which could signal greater military cooperation between the countries at a time of continued tension between Iran and the West over its nuclear program.

“It’s not true, it is an irresponsible report,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told reporters. “China has not had talks with Iran on J-10 jets.”

Chinese state media revealed at the end of last year that the Chinese air force was equipped with a new generation of the J-10 fighter plane.

Ties between China and Iran are largely absent of the tensions between that country and the West, and it remains an important oil supplier to feed China’s growing economy.

The J-10 has been in development since the late 1980s, according to Global Security, and has utilized Russian technology.

The Russian news reports said the planes would be delivered starting next year, and the contract could be worth US$1 billion (€700 million).

In the world of Politics a peace treaty can be broken, politicians usually break what they say, however in this case the most likely is China won`t sell the J-10s but only time will tell there must be a reason why the Russians and Israelies reported that.
One possible answer is the Russian report was a misquoting or a misunderstanding or simply there are rumours that China will sell the J-10s.

However consider that denying it means also 100% veracity is like Hitler`s words to Chamberlian or the nazi-soviet peace treaty.

At this moment probably the report of China selling the J-10 most likely is wrong but only time will tell

I see some of the usual suspects in here that claimed the FC-1 was a failed design because it has gone through more than one design change. So by your logic the Lavi is a failed design and the J-10 is a successful original domestic design since it’s airframe is larger. So if you can’t fiind an EXACT “original” that the J-10 is copied from, by your own logic, the J-10 is an original since it’s larger and nothing inside is a copy or exported technology from the US or Israel.

Man why you do not see these reports have been written by no forum members, these reports are from mostly Russian and Israeli news agencies you might not like them of course it is obvious why, but at least see these reports were written by Israeli and Russians authors and basicly claim things they might know simply because both nations were involved in the J-10 program.

For some Israelies this has become like a national tragedy because their own technology has fallen into one of Israel`s main political rivals in the middle east.

Yeah that would be correct.But still is pretty expensive.

Python V is a short ranged IIR missile,not a BVR one!

Want to see some F-15 vs J-10 combat now!:diablo:

With Python V, Derby and AIM-120 the F-16 Soufa can deal with the J-10s besides they have better AWACs to support them.

The Americans also have AIM-9Xs and helmet mounted sights

Iran buys J-10s

Iran buys Israeli fighter jets

Iran has signed a contract with China for the delivery of two squadrons of J-10 fighter planes. The design was developed by Israel for its Air Force and then sold to Beijing. Engines for the jets will be supplied by Russia.
Representatives of the Iran Aircraft Manufacturing Industrial Company said China would deliver the total (24 jets) in 2008-2010. Experts, estimating one fighter at $40 million, put the contract’s value at $1 billion.
The maximum range of the J-10 with detachable fuel tanks is 2,940 km. In this way, Iran will be able not only to fly over the Persian Gulf, but also theoretically venture as far as Israel and come back to base.
Until now, Iran’s longest-reach fighters have been Russian-made MiG-29s (Fulcrum), whose maximum range is 2,100 km.
Experts, however, do not think the two squadrons of J-10s will substantially alter the balance of force in the region.
“The American military has far more planes of more advanced types in the Persian Gulf area,” said Konstantin Makiyenko, an analyst with the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies.
“A more likely opponent of Shia Iran is Sunni Saudi Arabia. But even Saudi Arabia, thanks to American assistance, has a more powerful air force than Iran,” he added.
In the expert’s view, Iran will most likely use J-10s to protect key facilities, such as the nuclear power plant at Bushehr.
Besides, the very presence of J-10 jets could act as a deterrent, said Makiyenko: the fighters can theoretically scuttle any Israeli strike at facilities which Israel may believe are manufacturing weapons of mass destruction.
Experts say that in mid-2007 the Chinese Air Force had a complement of 89 J-10s. According to unofficial reports, China had intended to build 120 such fighters for its needs.
As a propulsion unit the J-10 uses the Russian AL-31FN engine, an upgraded version of the AL-31F turbojet widely employed on Su-27 (Flanker) fighter planes.
In July 2005, China concluded a contract with arms export monopoly Rosoboronexport for the supply within the next two years of 100 AL-31FN engines from Moscow’s Salyut plant with an option on another 100 engines.
In the summer of 2007, China exercised its option by signing a new contract for another 100 AL-31FN engines to be supplied within the next two years.

Business & Financial Markets

source http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20071023/85174001.html

No, swing wings are an interim technology and were favored by contradicting requirements. They cause high structural weight, impose limitations in lifetime and limit maneuverability. The main advantages can be achieved easier with other solutions.

I have problems to see any swing-wings which excel in the points you mentioned. Better say: swing wings are useful to combine the performance of a supersonic jet with acceptable/good field performance.

The old story. True is that conventional wings will give equivalent cruise speeds in the tactically useful range with minimal fuel penalty. More important for long range dash is the engine and inlet system. Turbofan engines are generally second class choice for that, but offer best compromise.

All aircraft that earned a swing wing did it because of field performance requirements. The better engine technology more or less cancelled the take-off problem, while landing remains a challenge.
I guess toughest field performance requirements were imposed on the Tornado, which also excels in being the most specialised airframe. Who ever saw a Tornado wing with all surfaces extended (slats, flaps, spoilers) will see how sophisticated the wings are.

My favorite swing wing is by the way the MiG-23.

i have to confess that i always suspected you were a MiG-23 fan, however i think in terms of swing wings i almost like them all
i leave you an excellent picture of a MiG-23 from art of war

source http://artofwar.ru/g/golikow_a_j/gauf09.shtml

but i think the swing wing i like the most is the Tu-22M2 followed by the Su-24M i find more beautiful those heavier bombers, the MiG-23 undoutedly is a cool aircraft but i feel it looks a bit slim, i like the MiG-23 no doubt about it but to be honest the F-14 looks better

You will never learn, will you?
All the human beings do live in different societies with different values. That is common knowledge, what you still have to realise for unknown reasons. There is something like asymmetrical wars, what does seem unknown to you too. You claim you will not discuss politics, but that is your main argument not to stick to the related details.

But here we look into “known” details at first. A yardstick to judge the credibility of every source! General claims, all is possible .., does not help by that. It is hard work for us to look into all details to get from different sources. Despite personal opinions there is something like statistics to take into consideration. Did you look into the Israeli arial losses in 2006.
In your way of thinking that were all Hezbollah shot-downs covered as accidents. Did you find out, which of that was a real one?

Man in all societies people love their children and mourn their dead, your statements are bias.

In fact societies are closer than you think in the way they think, what divide people are fake values such as nationalisms, racism and fake religious believes and economic interests.

All societies do cover losses, all societies justify agression and in the vast majority of cases peace is seen as impossible to obtain because the enemy is dehumanized.

What i have shown you is simple as a historian you can not trust only one side, if you think western sources are better up to you, but remember in all societies there is a degree of freedom and when they fight their political enemies they will find real facts and will make up others

At least you show some signs of understanding. The Merkava is not free for export and that is no reason to highlight its capabilities. No aircraft but still a good example for military hardware. The main purpose is to convince the home-public, that it is worth its outlay in tax-payers money and that the cheaper M-1*/T-72* will not be a better buy. For the own soldiers to give the idea, that they will get the best weaponery available. That may work for people with nationalistic feelings or younger ones.

Most soldiers in the IDF do look much different into that. It is their live and health what they put into risc, when operating such weapon-systems. They do not care about military censorship and do show their personal military experiences on several websites inside and outside Israel. Here the military censorship do not work at all.
Many Israelis do live in other countries after their military service. Before the time of internet, several ones did write personal reports and books.

I hope the translator does work, so when scrolling the pics everyone can read the captions to become an impression about that time and some feelings of the people. To highlight the effectivness of the own weaponary does not belong to that.
http://www.online-translator.com/url/tran_url.asp?lang=en&direction=re&template=General&transliterate=&autotranslate=on&url=http://www.waronline.org/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft=14641

The second Lebanon War from 2006 has no secrets, when it comes to military hardware. The number of military vehicles lost, when damaged behind repair and the other ones is no secret as well as the names of soldiers killed and wounded. There are several pictures about Merkavas damaged, when and where and the fate of the crew in detail.

http://www.online-translator.com/url/tran_url.asp?lang=en&direction=re&template=General&transliterate=&autotranslate=on&url=http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-war-idf-ground-forces/index.html
Not in all cases the anti-tank-weapon responsible for that is known. Some tanks did suffer several hits from different ones too. The IDF did not even try to conceal the related damage or losses, despite all that returned to Israel.
In doing so the IDF would have lost the credibility in the eyes of the own soldiers. Those were angry for different reasons and in the mood to discuss all the shortcommings related to that and demanding the “heads” of the superiors responsible for that. The statistics about that are to read and the lessons from that did allow to free the money for related upgrades. Not all wishes will be fullfilled, because there is never enough money.

http://www.online-translator.com/url/tran_url.asp?lang=en&direction=re&template=General&transliterate=&autotranslate=on&url=http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/indices/index-history-secondlebanon.html
The military did use their losses to demand that upgrades related to that. They even go public to get the public support about that. To downplay and hide own losses is in no use about that. As the results did show, the other side had learned about some weaknesses and tried to use that in the own favour. Hezbollah and the Syrian are aware, how sensetive the Israelies are about losses in soldiers. Ron Arad and several other names of soldiers, who did not return from Lebanon are not forgotten. So the first question is always, what did happen and what went wrong to avoid further losses related to that.
Israel does not sell F-16s, F-15s or similar hardware. What they do sell is some upgrades to that.
The military in Cairo, Damascus and Jerusalem do know their own losses very well as most of their achivements. They do not hesitate to shows their gains in military museums and will not miss the opportunity to prove the other side wrong, when boosting achivement and try to hide losses. Damascus and Cairo do enjoy the advantage, that nearly all air-combat did take place over their own country-side. The Syrians are so disappointed about their hardware, that they are looking more and more into China and NK about that. The Floggers are still good enough to chase Israeli RPVs. To stay fair, most countries incl. Israel are unable to keep all numbers of military hardware at the state of the art. In the meanwhile the tank-force is halfed in numbers to keep the other half modern. But even that was not enough as Lebanon 2006 showed. The same reason why the USA did send its F-14 into retirement and it does not care really, if parts of intrest from that may have found its way to Russia.

Sens

In times of war all the nations will diminish losses that is common, it applies to any warring side

for example this is an F-16 shot down according to Russian sources in Iraq and that was lost as a resuslt of an accident according to western reports

Истребитель F-16 ВВC США с пилотом на борту в понедельник потерпел крушение в Ираке, передают информагентства со ссылкой на представителей американской армии. По одной из версий, самолет был сбит. В распространенном заявлении американского военного командования говорится, что инцидент произошел в 32 км к северо-западу от иракской столицы. Боевая машина потерпела крушение во время военной операции в провинции Анбар, в ходе которой обеспечивала прикрытие с воздуха войскам коалиции.

В настоящее время место падения самолета оцеплено американскими войсками. Ведется расследование обстоятельств трагедии. Официально о причинах крушения и судьбе пилота пока не сообщается. Между тем Al-Jazeera передает со ссылкой на источники в Багдаде, что F-16 подвергся ракетному обстрелу со стороны боевиков.

О судьбе пилота представители армии США ничего не сообщают, однако, по сведениям прибывших на место падения истребителя иракских журналистов, летчик, пытавшийся катапультироваться, погиб. Al-Jazeera продемонстрировала кадры, снятые иракским оператором, на которых запечатлены обгоревшие обломки F-16. На заднем плане видны окровавленное тело человека в летной форме и полураскрывшийся парашют.

Кроме того, в понедельник стало известно, что на юге Ирака убит француз, сотрудник Главного управления внешней безопасности (DGSE). Как передают в понедельник французские СМИ, сотрудник DGSE был застрелен еще 21 ноября местными правоохранительными органами на контрольно-пропускном пункте в городе Басра.

По опросам свидетелей, два сотрудника французской контрразведки проезжали на машине мимо контрольно-пропускного пункта и были остановлены местной милицией. Милиция открыла огонь по французам, “несмотря на их дипломатический статус”, сообщают СМИ. Второй дипломат тяжело ранен.

Министр обороны Франции Мишель Альо-Мари присутствовала сегодня на похоронах офицера во французском Перпиньяне. Центр DGSE был создан для освобождения взятых в Ираке в заложники французских журналистов.

Каталог NEWSru.com:

An USAF F-16 crashed on Monday in Iraq, transmit information agencies with reference to the American army. According to one version, the aircraft was shot down. In a statement, the American military command said that the incident took place 32 kilometers north-west of the Iraqi capital. The F-16 suffered a collapse during a military operation in Anbar province, which provided a cover from the air, coalition troops.

Currently, the place of the crash was surrounded by American troops. An investigation into the tragedy. Officially on the causes of the crash and fate of the pilot has not yet been reported. Meanwhile, Al-Jazeera passes with reference to sources in Baghdad that the F-16 was attacked by surface to air missiles from Iraqi insurgents.

Representatives of the United States Army did not indicate the fate of the pilot, however, according to Iraqi journalists the fighter, pilot, ejected and died. Al-Jazeera has shown images taken with the Iraqi operator, which shows the F-16 burned wreckage. In the background was visible to the dead body and parachute.

In addition, on Monday became known that in southern Iraq killed a Frenchman, a member of the General Directorate for External Security (DGSE). As broadcast on Monday the French media, the staff member was shot and killed another DGSE November 21 local law enforcement authorities at a checkpoint in the city of Basra.

By interviewing witnesses, the two employees of French counter traveling by car past a checkpoint and were stopped by local police. Police opened fire on the Frenchman, “despite their diplomatic status”, the media reported. A second diplomat seriously injured.

French Defense Minister Michele Alliot today attended the funeral of an officer in the French Perpignan. DGSE Center has been established to release the commitments in Iraq French journalists hostage.

http://newsru.com/world/27nov2006/f16.html

The body of a U.S. F-16 fighter pilot lies amongst the wreckage of the plane, which crashed about 15 km (9 miles) north of Falluja November 27, 2006. The U.S. military confirmed the crash but said it had no information on the cause of the crash

source

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-11/28/content_744585_2.htm here we have another F-16 shot down this in 1991

Aircraft down
The day was to quickly turn bad for the 614th TFS as they would loose two aircraft.

The first 614th TFS aircraft lost this day was piloted by Captain Harry ‘Mike’ Roberts who was in ‘Lucky Devil’ aircraft #87-0228 when it was struck by a SAM.

Then Major Jeffrey ‘Tico’ Tice witnessed the whole thing:

I saw the missile launched at Captain Mike Roberts jet and called for him to “break right.” Missile went trough his jet and all I saw was his jet vaporize. Though he was dead for nearly a week.

Scott Snell also describes the loss of this aircraft:

“Aircraft #87-0228 was also shot down on January 19th, 1991. Then Captain Mike Roberts was flying 228 and took a direct hit on the underside of the F-16. The other pilots came back and said that the F-16 was split in half, the cockpit pitched down and that they didn’t see any parachute. We all thought that he was killed until we see both Tice and Roberts paraded in front of the CNN camera as prisoners of war.”
Second aircraft to be lost was F-16C #87-0257, piloted by Major Jeffrey Scott “Tico” Tice from the 614th TFS after being hit by a SAM 150 miles into Iraq.

TSgt Bill Hinchey was the dedicated crew chief for #87-0257, describes his F-16:

“I was the dedicated crew chief of aircraft #87-0257 while assigned to the 614th Aircraft Maintenance Unit, Torrejon AB, Spain. The aircraft deployed to Doha, Qatar in support of Operation Desert Shield/Storm. It was an awesome flying machine. It flew over 30 consecutive flights Code 1(no defects) during the initial days of Desert Storm

source
http://www.f-16.net/articles_article8.html

source http://www.lucky-devils.net/canopy.html