SnapperI doubt it:
http://www.keypublishing.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11253
But Normandy should be nuts!
SnapperYes. When I wake up. Keltic doesn’t though:
http://www.keypublishing.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11377
SnapperYes. When I wake up. Keltic doesn’t though:
http://www.keypublishing.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11377
SnapperOh no my dear Pullover, I baited the hook and dropped it in the pond myself – I had good fishing today…
My mate at work wouldn’t phone my wife and parents, calling himself ERNIE. The git.
SnapperOh no my dear Pullover, I baited the hook and dropped it in the pond myself – I had good fishing today…
My mate at work wouldn’t phone my wife and parents, calling himself ERNIE. The git.
SnapperSnapperSnapperIts the Valleees.
SnapperIts the Valleees.
SnapperThat is rather an interesting thing to ponder Moggy. Thats 4 bods instead of 7 bods per 8000 lb of bombs, smaller targets for flak / fighters / raider, and quicker too. With the speed, and faster turnaround times for the groundcrews, 2 ops per night would have been, perhaps, sustainable for a good percentage of aircraft – iwth less valuable material being consumed overall. Very interesting point, thanks.
When you consider the anti-Mosquito crowd initially, with hindsight, its almost like they were fifth-columnists! But then you go on holiday now in some flying bus, and its faster than any WW2 piston fighter.
SnapperHave they got any camouflage ones? True Warbirds are camouflaged, and real Cowboys don’t line dance.
SnapperDevelopment – Canopy? LOL! Canopy, prop, machine guns / cannon, larger tailplane, different wing, longer fuselage radial engine etc etc (because the Typhoon was modified so heavily they called it a Tempest V. Led to the Tempest II, another modification stage.)
The Mossie, of course, needed to be modified…
I think it IS useful to try and state why one is better than the other – because I know loads about the Typhoon, but not about the Mossie, or their contexts – and therefore, we educate each other and ourselves, which is a purpose of the forum to a degree, yes? It’s not about saying one is crap – it’s about saying why the other is better.
Typhoon looks like a Focke Wulf? to Spitfire, Thunderbolt pilots, and AA gunners, they did for sure.
The Mossie was incredibly useful, incredibly versatile, and incredibly good – but it was never a ‘war-winner’ – it never
Typhoon – low-level interceptor – the very best until the Tempest V came along. Could outfly an Fw190 in combat conditions. Perhaps re-engined it would have been a different story at high altitude, certainly made a difference with the Mustang. Nobody who flew them ever forgot them.
Another Tiffy drawback – the necessity to use oxygen from the word go, to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning. And next to impossible to ditch successfully. Periodically caught fire on start up, so needed erks with fire extinguishers. Plus sides were that it was an incredibly stable gun platform, incredibly fast, with high cruising speed, and able to absorb a hell of a lot of damage without going down.
Snapper“And just how much damage were a few single-seaters going to do to the UK war effort?”
To morale? Substantial. It was major news in the papers at the time. The school in Lewisham that was bombed by a Focke-Wulf, killing a bunch of kids, is a good example. 20th January 1943 was the biggest raid on the UK since the Battle of Britain – turned around by Typhoons from Manston. Attacks on the home front are a MAJOR propaganda tool.
“Not actually done by Typhoons on their own.”
Agreed, but I would say they played the lions share of the role. And it saved one hell of a lot of lives of the infantry, and ‘Ronson’ crews. That’s why Tiffy pilots are so highly regarded by Normandy veterans (well, Allied ones!)
“Ah! The Typhoons one achievement”
Mortain? Rommels HQ? Night Intruders wrecking the rail transport pre-invasion? Falaise was the ‘finest hour’, but not the only hour.
“The virtual demolition of the German costal shipping capability”
Partaken in by Typhoons as well, big time. Especially 486 (NZ) Squadron.
“The vital weather recce in support of the bomber effort”
Amongst the Spits, Mustangs, Typhoons etc
“The U-boats it sank”
I thought that was the Beaus job in the main?
“The fear (and casualties) it brought to the German night-fighter ops on Intruder missions”
Ideally suited to that – speed, 2 man crews, agility, performance at altitude. The Tiffy could not have done a thing in that role. How many ‘victories’, and how big a drain on German aircrew/machines?
“Its photo-recce role”
Shared with a vast majority of Spits (and some Mustangs)
“The V1s it downed”
The Typhoons offsprings main role. The Typhoons were pulled out to do the Normandy work, the Tempests were pulled back to do the Doodlebugs. The Mossies were the only option for night work though, as the Tempest boys were flat out all day – and many times into the night as well. The Spits and Typhoons had major trouble catching them, and got in the way of Beamonts Wing – as did the AA gunners. Hence the moving of the AA belt, and the Tempests talmost-total domination of the area during daylight. Out of interest, what’s the total number downed by Mossies?
“That factory they took out in 633 Squadron (We wouldn’t have had that tune without the Mossie) “
You got me. Shucks. Saved the best until last!
“And anyway, Susannah is far far tastier than thingy from DBW everybody agreed that from last time round!”
I look better in stockings.
Yes, good topic to debate – the accidental ones usually are the best!
“the Constellation is rated as one of the best looking aeroplanes of all time, and the Typhoon is, and let’s be fair, a bit of a lump.”
I find the Connie to be an ugly, bent backed thing personally, and can’t appreciate it at all – no matter how good it actually is/was. And the Typhoon doesn’t have the grace of a Spit for example, the feminine curves, but that agressive bulldog stance, with the slightly cranked wing and that BIG chin and huge cannons really does look like a warplane. To me, it really does look beautiful. But then again, you haven’t seen my wife…
Snapper“the Typhoon was designed as a fighter, as which it was a failure”
Wrong. As an interceptor. It was useless at high altitude, where at the time of its introduction it was neede – but by early 1943 the Fw190s were coming in low on the south coast, and THE ONLY aircraft that could catch them was the Typhoon. And it was VERY successful at it. Then it was found to be the best ground attack aircraft available – by day or night. The tails fell off, yes. The engines stopped, yes. Thats undoubtedly true – but it was brought into service without the testing that a pre-war aircraft – ie Hurricane, or engine – ie Merlin, could go through. It was trialled in North Africa, but not used. I don’t know if it was planned to send Typhoons to the Far East or not, so I can’t judge. It was also used for phot-recon and anti shipping. By the time the war was over it was replaced by the Tempest, so was not needed. But it certainly shortened the war, and I would say that it did so by a greater timespan than the Mossie.
Doughnut – My sincere apologies for upsetting you. However, I really think that you are way over-reacting. I do not know Mr Grey, nor do I work for TFC, nor do I think that that has anything to do with it. And yes, it WAS silly. It was FOOLISH. Being April FOOLS day, or All Fools day, or whatever, that was the point. The story has been running on rumour and speculation, so why should humour, rumour, and speculation not be allowed? Note the carefully hidden phrase:
“I for one will be lying”
Now, I like Mossies, I think they were superb, and I would like to see one fly in the UK. But I don’t own it, I won’t fund its restoration, so I have nothing whatsoever to do with the choice on its future, and I will learn of its future once it is made public knowledge. Until then, its fair game. And besides, how much of it, other than the makers plate, will actually survive anyway? I for one couldn’t care less what it is swapped for, as long as its a WW2 warbird (no bloody Connies or Skyraiders, please).
Now admit it, it IS a good one, and you were caught out.
Snapper“I have to agree though, that in overall terms the Mossie is both the more historically important airframe and aesthetically, far more pleasing.”
You are kidding, right?
More historically important than catching and whacking the tip-and-run Fw190 raiders in 1943? More historically important than keeping the Panzers and artillery from sending the invasion force back into the sea? More important than knocking out an entire army at Falaise? C’mon, the Mossie was good, and important, but do you really think it matches the achievements of the third most numerous British fighter? What did the Mossie really do that was so important? Pathfinder work? Night fighting work? Knocking a hole in a wall?
And regarding aesthetics Moggy, well, you prefer the Battle of Britain bird to the Dark Blue World Bird, so we are bound to differ.
Of course, it would be nice to see both flying, but when there is only one other surviving Typhoon in existence, and the relatively large quantity of Mossies, I’m certainly on Stephens side with this. Besides, a Tiffy is a unique opportunity – he may well buy back a Mossie in the future – i’m certain he will. And getting 3 engines with the Tiffy, well, thats going to provide us with enough airshow hours i’m sure.
(Is it just me, or does Alexis need shooting?)
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