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  • in reply to: Rafale news XII #2347692
    eagle1
    Participant

    If true what a come back !!! Better than your favorite Soap opera !

    French Rafale UAE deal back on-report
    R_euters/la tribune, Feb 2

    *La Tribune says Sarkozy could seal $10 bln deal by April*Win in the UAE could pave way for Qatar, Kuwait

    France could seal a long-awaited deal for Dassault to sell at least 60 Rafale fighter jets to the United Arab Emirates by April, turning around what appeared to have been a lost cause, French newspaper La Tribune reported on Thursday.

    The French-built jet emerged on Tuesday as preferred bidder in a $15 billion contest to supply India with 126 warplanes, lifting hopes for a sale that would boost French national pride and restore the lustre of its aviation sector.

    Citing unidentified sources, the paper said on its website that President Nicolas Sarkozy would go to the UAE in March or early April when the contract is likely to be finalised.

    The deal, potentially worth $10 billion has been in the works since 2008, but was thrown into doubt in November when the world’s fourth-largest oil exporter said the proposed terms were “uncompetitive and unworkable.” It asked for details of a rival aircraft, the Typhoon built by the Eurofighter consortium.

    “Everything has been unlocked (between the UAE and Dassault),” an unidentified source told La Tribune.

    A French government source told Reuters that Paris was waiting to hear from the Emirates this month. Dassault and the Defence Ministry declined to comment.

    Sarkozy scored a commercial coup with the announcement this week that years of lobbying had pushed India close to buying the Rafale and will look to make political gains ahead of April’s presidential election in which he is lagging in the polls behind Socialist rival Francois Hollande.

    The UAE has pressed for the aircraft’s engines to be upgraded with extra thrust and for better radar, industry sources have said.

    La Tribune said there were a few technical details still to be ironed out, but that they were easy to resolve. It added that as part of the deal Paris would take back the Emirates’ existing Dassault-made Mirage fighters. [which would be sold to Lybia]

    Speaking after the India announcement, French Defence Minister Gerard Longuet hinted there could be more deals ahead.

    “Good news are like worries, they fly in squadrons,” he said. “That (deal) is the start of a squadron of good news.”

    A French win in the UAE could also lead to further contracts in the Gulf Arab region which shares the West’s concerns that Iran is using its nuclear energy programme to develop weapons, a charge Tehran has denied. Saudi Arabia inked a deal for U.S. arms worth nearly $60 billion a year ago.

    Qatar, a close French ally, said last year it wanted to replace its fleet of Mirage fighter jets during 2012 possibly buying 24 to 36 units. Kuwait in 2010 said it was also considering buying Rafales to replace its ageing Mirage fleet.

    According to analysts the Gulf countries are looking to have the same aircraft for inter-operability reasons as well as differentiating themselves from Gulf power house Saudi Arabia, which uses U.S. Boeing-built F-15s.

    “My wish is that the UAE makes a decision that allows two neighbours that want inter-operability with it to make decisions,” Longuet said in January when asked about potential contracts in Qatar and Kuwait.

    “If they get the feeling no decision is taken they will look elsewhere. For now they are interested, but they will only really be if the first one takes a leap.”

    in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2348173
    eagle1
    Participant
    in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2348209
    eagle1
    Participant

    A last good one :

    Former air chiefs hail ‘free and fair’ selection of Rafale
    India Today, Feb 2

    It took two years for the Indian Air Force to work out the formula to calculate the lifecycle costs of multi-role combat aircraft that were in the fray for the mega deal for purchase of 126 jets.
    Former air chiefs have hailed the selection of Rafale as an important milestone for IAF which desperately needed new jets and complimented the selection team for ensuring the process was fair and transparent.

    “It was the first time that the complex calculation was used in an Indian military contract and the IAF consulted experts from the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, Harvard University and even Metroman E. Sreedharan,” former air chief S.P Tyagi said

    Former air chief P.V. Naik, who was at the helm last year, said it was a good step. He said the credit for keeping the bidding process fair goes to a team that was set up to spearhead the contract.
    Naik’s predecessor Tyagi gave some more insights. He said the formula to calculate lifecycle cost was worked out keeping in mind that it should not suit a particular vendor.

    It has taken a decade for the contract to reach at a stage where final price negotiations will be held with French company Dassault, the maker of Rafale.

    Dassault has emerged winner out of a pack of six including Lockheed Martin’s F-16 and Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, which were eliminated last April along with Sweden’s Gripen and Russia’s Mig-35.

    in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2348213
    eagle1
    Participant

    another

    Price Frozen, Dassault Expects to Freeze Indian MMRCA Rafale Architecture Next
    DefenseWorld, feb 2

    Dassault Aviation is preparing to hold discussions with the Indian MOD’s contract negotiations committee (CNC) in the coming weeks to freeze the Rafale aircraft architecture as the next step in its quest to sign the estimated $12 billion contract.

    A source from Dassault told Defenseworld.net that teams from Das[s]ault and the CNC will decide on the aircraft’s final architecture following which the terms of the transfer of technology(ToT) will be decided. “A third important step, that of deciding on offsets will have to be concluded before signing on the dotted line”, said the source who did not wish to be named as he was not authorized to speak to the media.

    If these three steps are fulfiled, then we can look forward to signing the contract early next year”, he said adding that performance of the contract is likely to begin towards the end of 2013.

    Freezing the aircraft architecture is the next crucial step as it involves taking decisions on all the systems and sub-systems which will go into the aircraft and which vendor will provide what. “It means taking a call on the configuration in which the Indian Air Force wants the aircraft”.

    Asked whether there would be scope for a change in price if the aircraft architecture was fine-tuned, the source said that the basic price was frozen and pricing of various systems will have to be within the purview of the financial bids submitted during the evaluation process where the Rafale was declared the lowest bidder.

    Regarding offsets agreement, he said that Dassault plans to “revisit” the Indian industry as the earlier offsets proposal had been submitted in 2007. “Once we are through with the aircraft architecture and the terms of the ToT we will be better placed to select our offsets partners”, he said

    in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2348216
    eagle1
    Participant

    article :

    The Real Reasons for Rafale’s Indian Victory

    Defense Aerospace, Feb 1

    PARIS — While many observers cite technology transfer, prices and performance as being major factors in India’s selection of the Rafale as its next-generation fighter, reality is very different even if these factors obviously did play a significant role.

    In the same way that it is true that Rafale lost several competitions through no fault of its own, it must be recognized that its victory in India was also won, to a great extent, through no fault of its own. The real reason for its victory is political, and the long memory of Indian politicians was a major contributing factor.

    This is not to say, however, that Rafale’s own impressive qualities had nothing to do with its selection. The Indian Air Force, which was extensively briefed by the French air force in the autumn, was particularly impressed by its operational performance during the Libyan bombing campaign and in Afghanistan. Rafale also has a naval variant which could be of future interest to India, given its plans to buy and build aircraft carriers, while the recent decision to upgrade India’s Mirage 2000H fighters will simplify the air force’s logistics chain, as these will share with Rafale many weapons and other equipment.

    The Indian Air Force also is a satisfied user of long standing of French fighters, going back to the Dassault Ouragan in the 1950s. It was also particularly appreciative of the performance of its Mirages during the 1999 Kargil campaign against Pakistan, and of the support it then obtained from France. During that campaign, India obtained French clearance – and possibly more – to urgently adapt Israeli and Russian-supplied laser-guided bombs to the Mirages, which thus able to successfully engage high-altitude targets that Indian MiG-23s and MiG-27s had been unable to reach.

    Rafale was preferred because of lower costs, and the Indian air force’s familiarity with French warplanes such as the Mirage, Bloomberg reported Feb. 1 quoting an Indian source who asked not be named. “Unit-wise, the French plane is much cheaper than the Eurofighter. Moreover, the Indian air force, which is well equipped with French fighters, is favouring the French,” the source said.

    To Indian officials, France’s steadfastness as a military ally contrasted strongly with that of the United States, which stopped F-16 deliveries to Pakistan (but kept the money) when it found it expedient to do so, and slowed or vetoed delivery of components for Light Combat Aircraft that India was developing. And, of course, the 1998 arms embargo, decreed by the US after India’s nuclear test in May of that year, left a very bad taste in Indian mouths. France, on the contrary, was the only Western nation not to impose sanctions.

    That, Indian sources say, was New Delhi’s real reason for eliminating Boeing and Lockheed Martin from the fighter competition; India has resolved, these sources say, to buy only second-line equipment from the U.S., such as transport (C-17, C-130J) or maritime patrol aircraft (P-8I). Vital weapons such as missiles and fighters, when they cannot be locally produced, will remain the preserve of France and Russia.

    Political considerations were also a significant factor playing against Rafale’s final competitor, the Eurofighter Typhoon. As this aircraft is produced by a consortium of four nations, each with different foreign policies and different attitudes and tolerances to arms exports, Indian officials were a bit nervous about their ultimate reliability as a single supplier.

    Germany is a long-standing Indian aviation partner, and a respected role model for Indian politicians, many of whom were educated there. German companies – essentially the former Messerschmitt-Boelkow-Blohm, now part of EADS – helped Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. develop both the LCA and the Advanced Light Helicopter, now called Dhruv. These links were the reason the Eurofighter bid was led by Germany’s Cassidian, and not BAE Systems, the former colonial power. But Germany had dithered over technology transfer for LCA, soft-pedaled on ALH tech transfer when German pacifists raised their eyebrows, and coughed when India almost went to war with Pakistan over Kargil and Kashmir, so in the final analysis it could not be considered a reliable supplier of major weapons.

    Italy has never sold a major weapon to India, and so could bring neither influence nor reputation to support Eurofighter, while the third partner, Spain, is totally absent from the Indian military landscape.

    This left BAE Systems as the best-known Eurofighter partner in India, and so by default as its ultimate public face. BAE in 2003 sold £1.5 billion’s worth of Hawk jet trainers to India, with a follow-on, £500 million order in 2010. However, its previous major sale to India was the Jaguar light attack aircraft in the 1970s. In fact, this aircraft was jointly developed by Britain and France on a 50/50 basis, and while it was license-produced by HAL it was never really successful as a fighter. Furthermore, France could claim as much benefit from its Indian career as BAE.

    Taken together, the Eurofighter partner nations posed an even thornier problem: in case of war, German law prohibits deliveries of weapons and spares, Italian law and public opinions would demand an embargo, which Spanish legislation is murky. What would happen, Indian politicians must have wondered, if after buying the Eurofighter they went to war? Would spares and weapons be forthcoming, or would they be embargoed? The political risk was obviously too big to take.

    Weapons also played a significant role in persuading India to opt for Rafale: not only is its weapons range mostly French-made, and thus not subject to a third-party embargo, but so are all of its sensors. Eurofighter, whose air-to-air missiles include the US-made AIM-120 Amraam and the German-led IRIS-T, and whose primary air-to-ground weapon is the US-made Paveway, was obviously at a competitive disadvantage in this respect.

    Furthermore, the Rafale is nuclear-capable and will replace the Mirage 2000N in French service as the carrier of the newly-upgraded ASMP/A nuclear stand-off missile; it is also capable of firing the AM-39 Exocet missile, giving it an anti-ship capability that its competitors do not have. India is also interested in fitting its BrahMos supersonic missile to a wide range of its combat aircraft, and Rafale could apparently carry it.

    Given that India had sworn to buy the cheapest compliant competitor, it would have been unable to justify picking the Rafale had this not been offered at the lower price. While official figures have not been released, and indeed may never be, initial reports from New Delhi claim that Rafale was offered at a unit price of $4-$5 million less than Eurofighter, which is a surprisingly large advantage given the French aircraft’s reputation of being high-priced.

    […]

    in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2349576
    eagle1
    Participant

    La tribune :

    The Eurofighter has lost all its games against the Rafale
    La Tribune, Feb 1

    Each time the Eurofighter has been competing against the Rafale, it’s the latter who have lead. Even if this was never a guarantee of success in the end for the french aircraft. India confirms the predominance of the Rafale against the Eurofighter.

    Facing the Rafale, the Eurofighter (BAE Systems, EADS and Finmeccanica) just can’t do it … because, despite its few export success (Austria, Saudi Arabia …), this fighter has always been leaded by the french aircraft manufactured by Dassault Aviation in all the competitions in which they both participated. This gives an insight to the victory of the Rafale, selected by New Delhi to enter into exclusive negotiations.
    It was the case in the Netherlands in early 2002 when the Dutch air force evaluated the aircrafts in competition (85 fighters). The F-35 Lockheed Martin was slightly ahead of the Rafale (6.97 against 6.95). However, the Eurofighter Typhoon dragged far behind with a score of 5.83. The same year, the aircraft manufactured by the European consortium was eliminated by South Korea at the pre-selection phase (short list) as part of the tender KF-X for the purchase of 40 fighter aircraft . The South Korea Air Force ranked Rafale first among the three aircraft evaluated (F-15E Boeing, Eurofighter) after technical and financial evaluations and offsets. In the end, Boeing had won the competition on purely political criteria.
    New duel, this time in the skies of Singapore in 2005. Again, the Ministry of Defence of the city-state, which wants to buy 20 fighter as part of the NFRP tender eliminates the European aircraft. The Rafale in the final faces again the Boeing F-15E. The U.S. offer won in September 2005 on political considerations. The release of Dassault Aviation is also clear: “the US weight gives again due to the Chinese proverb: Bamboo always leans toward the side that push stronger.” Dassault Aviation also lost due to the weak dollar this year.
    New cold shower for the Eurofighter, October 1, 2008 in Brazil, which is eliminated from the “F-X2” competition while the Rafale, the Gripen NG (Saab) and the F-18E / F Super Hornet (Boeing) are shortlisted. In the end, the Brazilians enter into exclusive negotiations with Dassault Aviation, but dramatic turn of events , in December 2010, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said during a TV interview, he will not decide before the end of his term on January 1 for the purchase of 36 fighter planes, an order estimated at between 4 and 7 billion.
    The last battle lost by the Eurofighter against the Rafale is recent. It was in Switzerland in 2011, where the Rafale is also topped the evaluations. But it is the Gripen NG[…] which won.

    in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2349862
    eagle1
    Participant

    Those two newspapers are heavily left leaned. They are hardly representative.

    in reply to: Rafale news XII #2351266
    eagle1
    Participant

    Maenwhile UAE talks have resumed very seriously !!!

    Rafale : Dassault into exclusive negotiations with India
    Les Echos, jan 31

    […]
    Sole candidate, Dassault has wide latitude to complete its victory even if the Eurofighter consortium is on the lookout for the slightest misstep of his rival. “The negotiations are likely to be very difficult, said Endre Lunde, a consultant at IHS Jane’s, quoted by AFP. India is very demanding in terms of participation of local industry. “Of the 126 Rafale planned, 18 will be built in France, the other under license in India by HAL group . In addition to a good news for the budget of the Ministry of Defence is the promise of a significant workload for the many French firms involved in the program.

    The Indian Army confirms by the way how highly it thinks of “made in France” weapons . Thales, combined with Dassault, recently signed a contract of EUR 1.5 billion to modernize its fifty Mirage 2000 in service. MBDA expects an agreement soon almost a billion to supply air to air missiles. And the selection of the Rafale by New Delhi could favorably influence the ongoing negotiations in the UAE.

    Abu Dhabi is negotiating for more than three years now the purchase 60 copies of the French fighter. In November, the rant against Dassault, vilified as too expensive, has raised fears that all was lost. Wrongly, because since, the two parties resumed the negotiations, and very seriously, according to our information. “Good news are like bad news, they fly in squadron. Here is the beginning of a squadron of good news “, says Gerard Longuet, the defense minister …

    126+60 and then a possible 80…Not that bad if those contracts are inked.

    in reply to: Breaking news the RAFALE WON #2352074
    eagle1
    Participant

    The source said each Rafale was $4 million to $5 million cheaper than its rival and the plane was preferred by the Air Force

    http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6301&start=680

    currently at work so don’t have much time but great news !

    in reply to: MMRCA news XI #2353133
    eagle1
    Participant

    Agree with you Scorpion but in the end the rafale was rated above in the AtA role : defensive and offensive. Sorry for being unclear in my hereabove post. But given the time the contenders were in Switzerland and the number of test it is unlikely that the rafale would have performed worse in this scenario and still end up with a higher mark in AtA (offensive and defensive) than the typhoon.

    in reply to: MMRCA news XI #2353154
    eagle1
    Participant

    They are evaluated differently.

    As far as performance goes – the IAF would have had a greater stress on BVR capability and high altitude high speed performance while the SAF would presumably require an aircraft excelling in the low altitude high AoA regime for pop-up attacks and low speed dogfights in mountainous terrain (they did opt for the F-18 over the bestselling F-16).

    As far as financial terms goes – the deliveries to Switzerland were of a French built Rafale from a relatively efficient Dassault production line (I believe workers alternate with the Falcon line), while the bulk of the Indian order is for license produced aircraft. Also while I’m not very familiar with the Swiss offset requirements, they certainly weren’t as steep as the 50% specified by the Indian MoD.

    Don’t take your desire for reality. You simply have no proofs of how aircrafts were evaluated in Switzerland and India. The only thing sure is that the “highlight” of Switzerland evaluation was a scenario where each competitor had to scramble to intercept a high altitude Mach 1.5 F18 SH. This scenario should have been made for the Typhoon yet it scored worse than the rafale.

    As far as swiss offer is concerned here is a comment after Dassault’s new offer :

    For Keckeis , the Dassault offer is “almost a gift»
    NZZ online, Jan 30

    Old army chief would respond to the offer of the Rafale manufacturer
    […]
    Christophe Keckeis, the former head of the Swiss Army, says “the offer from Dassault is “almost a gift”, he told the Western Swiss Radio RSR. “18 Rafale are more advantageous than 22 Gripen, because the French jet is simply better”.[…]

    http://www.romandie.com/news/n/PRESSECHAvions_de_combat_lettres_de_Dassault_a_des_parlementaires300120120601.asp

    in reply to: MMRCA news XI #2353851
    eagle1
    Participant

    from the same source in Kovy’s blog

    http://www.offiziere.ch/wp-content/uploads/TTE091202LaermBriefingD_08_40009428255.ppt

    slide n°5 :

    Evaluationskriterien (1/2)
    operationelle Wirksamkeit (60 %)- Luft-Luft (50 %)- Aufklärung und Luft-Boden (je 20 %) – Wachstumspotential (10 %)
    operationelle Eignung (15 %)- Wartungs-Prozesse (30 %)- Miliztauglichkeit (25 %)- Kompatibilität mit CH Infrastruktur (25 %)- Lärm- und Abgas-Emissionen (20 %)
    Beteiligung / Kooperation (25 %)- Beteiligung CH Industrie (70 %) – militärische Kooperation (30 %)

    makes me smile when you realize that swiss had a strong emphasis on air to air performance and rafale still won the flight test part and even more specifically the air to air section (remember the charts).:)

    in reply to: MMRCA news XI #2353883
    eagle1
    Participant

    Or some are wishing that there are no link :D;)

    ie : aircraft would not be evaluated “that” differently in india or Dassault would not have financial margins like in switzerland…

    in reply to: MMRCA news XI #2353891
    eagle1
    Participant

    Not directly MMRCA related but as the same aircraft are compared…
    Dassault is making a new offer in switzerland among suspicion of irregularities over the gripen Choice.

    Here is a summary of the offer :

    http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2012/01/switzerland-dassault-strikes-back.html

    Must be noted that with the updated offer the rafale is “only” 6% more expensive than the gripen !

    Also interesting in Kovy’s blog in the comment part a swiss journalist has posted this :

    ‘m the author of the article in the “Matin Dimanche” and the “SonntagsZeitung” / twitter: @titusplattner

    @raffeur Yes, it’s all includes weapons, ammo, infrastructure, etc. Simulator is not necessary, because swiss pilots will have the training slots in France.

    the CHF 2.7 billions for 18 Rafale is with a change rate of CHF 1.20 for 1 euro
    the CHF 4.0 billions for 22 Rafale was calculated with a change rate of 1.30 for 1 euro, as asked by the Swiss Federal departement of finance
    that means that Dassault (who wants to be paid in euro) made a discount of about 15%.

    The swiss evaluation had ten modules. The Rafale won the two flight modules (flight tests + projected flight capabilities).

    The Rafale also won the module about the ability to maintain a an alert status during a long period, and the module about military cooperation.

    For the noise pollution module, the three competitors had about the same score. These results are public:
    http://www.offiziere.ch/wp-content/u…k02F2kV1w&ct=w

    This is also the case for the industrial cooperation module. EADS, Dassault and Saab had about the same score. But Saab has more contracts with Ruag, (100% state owned).

    The five other modules are unknown yet. But there is a financial module, a module about the “Eignung” (adequacy to Switzerland – infrastructure). I guess there were also weapon module and an avionics module. And a module about about aircraft maintenance

    Gripen won the financial module and the module about aircraft maintenance costs. These two scores allowed the Gripen to (just) reach the minimal note of 6/10.

    If you have any infos for me, please contact me at [email]titus.plattner@edipresse.ch[/email]

    Ok that’s just a few candies waiting the final outcome of the MMRCA competition…!

    in reply to: MMRCA news XI #2357113
    eagle1
    Participant

    On TVC for naval use I don’t think you can compare with other items. TVC are made of plenty of mechanical parts and are subjected to much more constraints than other systems. Risk of failure is certainly much higher. And it is not even remotely comparable to the harrier.

    Mastering basic aerodynamic forces through classic FCS systems like on any modern jet is something well known. But mastering vectored flight is much more tricky especially with very different flight loads and for a naval use. That would mean that the TVC is very tightly integrated with the FCS. Possible but the amount of work and risk associated with the development is significant.

    This concept of reducing dramatically the approach speed has never been experimented on a true operational scale. Not even for a non naval fighter. That’s why you can raise serious doubt of the actual feasibility of this concept. Only the X-31 demonstrated such a capability but it was a clean experimental aircraft far from the toughness of a carrier life.

    It sounds nice in theory but I doubt it would be practically usable operationally for safety &/or costs/maintenance issues. That especially true in a naval environment.

    For this reason and considering partner nations are already reluctant fielding quickly other upgrades (multirole, AESA etc) I never took this naval program seriously and I wondered if foreign forces thought the same thing. I mean those ” cartoon drawing” displaying the naval Typhoon in the press looked pretty cheap.

Viewing 15 posts - 646 through 660 (of 1,087 total)