“Rafale figures a notch higher than Typhoon in terms of performance and involves easier adaptability as it is logistically and operationally similar to Mirage-2000, used extensively by our boys during the Kargil conflict in 1999. The French government has also cleared the technology transfer, including the AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar,” sources in the IAF told Deccan Chronicle.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/nation/south/rafale-typhoon-score-merit-126

So now we know who ended first in the MMRCA technical evaluation. This was already reported before the official news :

“M-MRCA Selection To Showcase Independence & Professionalism”: Indian MOD
Livefist , April 2

“If you think extraneous factors are going to guide our decision, then you may be surprised by the result.” The words of a senior MoD officer who spoke to select journalists recently about the Indian medium multirole combat aircraft (M-MRCA) competition. As the decade-stretched competition plods toward a decision, tentatively scheduled in the next few months, the near unanimous sense — from rumours, reports, leaks, hearsay, background briefings — is that the big European twins, the Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon — are the IAF’s two most preferred aircraft, and in that order [It was news station Times NOW’s senior editor Srinjoy Chowdhry who first suggested this in a report last year].

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/04/m-mrca-selection-to-showcase.html

If this story is true, the Typhoon will have as biggest asset offset & political influence to compensate a less developed less multirole platform.

With four countries pushing for it (and with EADS and BAE) you sure have plenty of opportunity to make offsets ! Also four governments means more diplomatic/lobby visits. In a way it is david against goliath.

Nevertheless the rafale has its arguments. A proven/ready/modern/omnirole/ less risky to field platform with a naval variant already available. And it has obvious synergies with a probable mirage 2000 upgrade. Besides the rafale program had a rather good momentum recently with key milestones passed in its development and of course the Libyan adventure.

EEE lightning,

Here is the story beneath. Pure WVR dogfight here. Pics (HUD gunshots) at link. Post N°1513.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?137433-Rafale-News/page101

Enemy Brothers
Air&Cosmos – June 2010

Since birth, both were scheduled to compete. The wrestling (commercial) which has now engaged the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Rafale on the international scene has its roots in the early 80s, while Europe is seriously considering a joint development of a new multinational European fighter aircraft. France, United Kingdom and Germany are the main actors in a drama that will last many years. These last two countries, which have already collaborated in the Panavia consortium for the development of the Tornado are looking to replace a portion of their tactical fleet. For its part, France is trying, too, to have a fighter that can replace almost all of its combat aircraft. But from the beginning, the situation appears complex, whereas the English call for an air superiority aircraft class 11-12 tonnes, Paris argues for a device of only 9 tons. Moreover, the problems of industrial shares weigh down the prospects of cooperation including France, whose aeronautical companies ardently defend their plans to support the maintenance of their skills. In 1985, France announced it will develop alone its future combat aircraft. For their part, the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and Spain will start the Eurofighter program. While France wants to start building a really multirole aircraft, the nations in the Eurofighter consortium finance the development of a superiority aircraft, designed for air to air combat. To date yet, the ‘Typhoon has only very limited air-ground capabilities compared with the Rafale.

More thrust for the Typhoon

On paper, the Typhoon has some undeniable advantages: more powerful than M88, its two reactors give it a better weight/thrust than the Rafale. According to the Eurofighter pilots, this additional power would be particularly appreciable during simulated combat below 20,000 ft, where the density of air allows the engines to be fully expressed. In the battle beyond visual range (BVR), the Typhoon also has an greater “extension” than the Rafale. This is because of the the physical characteristics of the radar, which antenna “sees” futher than the RBE2-PESA, but also because of the dynamic performance of the American missile AIM-120 AMRAAM . Designed exclusively for medium-range interception, it certainly does not have the versatility of the Mica, but it is superior in terms of range. Facing a Rafale, these theoretical advantages, however, must be nuanced.
In BVR combat, although the lengthening of the radar and missiles of the Typhoon are superior, the french Rafale fighter’s radar signature is, according to many pilots, much less important than the Eurofighter’s one. It is therefore an asset. Even better: the sensors fusion which enjoys the Rafale is also a crucial advantage in BVR combat, because it offers the pilots a much better understanding of the tactical situation during combat, and this, 360 degrees around the aircraft.
Once the “merge” is reached (when BVR combat turns into short-range), the Rafale has still strong chances of victory against the Typhoon. In the opinion of French pilots who have confronted the European aircraft, it’s above all the quality of the electric flight controls [FBW] of the French fighter who makes the difference. In dogfight, Rafale can quickly point its nose to the threat, while less degrading its energy than the Eurofighter does. And this partly because the maximum angle of attack of the Rafale is “clamped” around 300, which allows it to evolve in a controlled manner even at low speed.
This difference in terms of maneuverability is also illustrated by the position of the canard on the two planes: placed well in front of the fuselage on the Typhoon, they play the role of an additional control surface used to “steer” more quickly the nose of the plane to take the incidence.
Conversely, the Rafale ducks are located very near the delta wing and are used primarily to pick up the airflow to slow up the loss of lift on the wing, thus giving the pilot a full control of the aircraft at low speeds.

A first indisputable skirmish

The Armée de l’ Air has been able to experience this superiority in dogfight in September 2009, during an exercise organized by the French and British headquarters, during a deployment on the Solenzara airbase in Corsica .
Few days , the EC-1/7 stands next with the Royal Air Force transformation squadron on typhoons. The English have thought of everything, and introduce to the French pilots the simulated engagement patterns they wish to practice facing the Rafale. The French pilots push back a smile: the conditions of the exercice are, on paper, custom-made for the Typhoons , they plan within visual range fights , 1 vs 1, under 20,000 ft and at 350 knots. Whatever. The ‘Provence’ squadron takes up the gauntlet … The 2 planes take off, then meet up at 18 000 ft to start the exercise. The aircraft are flying on the same trajectory with about 2 km of lateral separation. “Turn Away” with this announcement, the pilots turn 45 ° outward, to move away from each other. A few seconds later, the “turn in” and the planes turn toward each other to meet face-to-face in the sky. Once both aircraft is within visual range , its the ultimate ad: “Fight’s on!”. The first skirmish is indisputable. It need less than 40 seconds and only 3 crossing for the Rafale pilot to have its gun in firing position. However, the pilots flying the two planes are far from beginners. While the English is considered a Typhoon specialist in air-to-air, the “Provence” pilot has also a solid experience in within visual range combat.

Nine wins, one defeat

This initial result is not a fluke: the two next passes end also to the advantage of the Rafale. In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing … It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports. While the Rafale is still looking for a first client, the Typhoon has already been sold to Saudi Arabia and Austria, and remains opposed to the Rafale in Switzerland and India.

sign,

The source was an Air fan monthly magazine about the swedish deployment in 2007 on Reims AFB (along with mirage F1CR). St Dizier AFB with rafale is very close (you have also dijon with M2k-5 and Nancy with M2kD) and swedish pilots practiced with rafale in WVR gun dogfights and mirage F1CR (I don’t remember for mirage 2000). They even visited St Dizier AFB for a day and a rafale pilot flew in a gripen.

The comments were made by both swedish and french pilots and there ware no contradiction. They agreed that the two aircraft were not in the same class, the french pilot compared the gripen with a smaller Mirage 2000-5mk2.

a summary of the article made on another forum :

In an article of Air Fan of May 2007, Gripen came to France in exchange with F1CR Reims. Beyond reconnaissance missions, the Gripen have mock dogfights and BVR with the Mirages F1. I did not specify the outcome, nobody doubts … [28]

however, the Gripen has been against the Rafale, and here it seems that our Swedish friends had nice cold sweat …

Thus combined raids were conducted according to Air Fan (two or four in F1CR reco Gripen escorted by two plus two Rafales sweep in with the AWACS, with four in 2000-5 CAP) and interceptions Gripen / Rafale in altitude. Swedish aviators knew little french new jet they fear above all the ability to shoot long distance with the Mica IR. Swedish aviators “who have participated with Rafale in combat have also discovered huge reserves of power available to that aircraft, even heavily loaded”

Also, according to a pilot, 1 / 33, connoisseur of the Rafale, which flew aboard Rafale and Gripen.
“Gripen is about the capacity of 2000-5 Mk2, a little smaller. But in terms of fusion of information, payload capacity, and technology of the weapon system, there ‘is a gap between the Rafale and JAS39 “

Other comments: “Visiting the EC 1 / 7, the Swedish pilots were obviously surprised by the capabilities of carrying the Rafale and the fusion of diffferent sensors “

… against F1CR , I do prefer not to comment … we will simply say that for dogfightieng, they are dropped completely, and BVR

In my books a rafale C is 9500Kg a bit more with the AESA now. But like many other figures I don’t know how close to reality they are.

All these theoretical comparisons are bogus as you never exactly now if your datas are correct or not up to date or old or on which config they are linked. Most probably you end up comparing apple and oranges or using incorrect figures.

I prefer to take a bird eye view and to look at operational performance rather than lose my time in endless “number comparisons”. It is also more relevant I think.

So if we talk about pure kinetic aircraft performances, I will tell you that a rafale can carry more, futher while being the most maneuverable aircraft of the competition. After all it manage to toast Typhoon 8-1 in pure gun dogfight, repeatedly dominate the F16 in various exercises, crush the gripen as well in 2007 without forgetting the SH vs rafale M encounters. It even old its own against the mighty F22 (dogfights). I don’t think that any other aircraft of the MMRCA competition has such a proven record.

I would say that it can carry as much if not more weapons with similar if not better range than a bigger SH while retaining first tier performance as an air dominance fighter. (acceleration, supersonic performance, maneuverability).

Jack of all trades but master of all I would say:D On of the main forte of the rafale (as an aircraft) in my opinion is that it is a very homogeneous/balanced platform in the sense that it is first tier for almost any missions from deep strike, bomb truck to interception or dogfighting.

Here is a new HD VIDEO of the RAFALE SOLO DISPLAY TEAM 🙂 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-UfoPInsQE

http://www.defense.gouv.fr/operations/autres-operations/operation-harmattan-libye/actualites/libye-point-de-situation-operation-harmattan-n-19

Again SAM sites attacked by rafales.

Seems that it was an opportunity shot when the SAM site went active as this was not the main purpose of the mission.

I am sure the air maintainer did their job well to prevent that mechanics failures don’t occur (or cancel the mission if a problem arise). However the footprint of the Tornado is well known and consume a lot of maintenance hours.

I remember that when the mirage 2000C was deployed during desert storm to underline mirage 2000 effectiveness they underlined the difference of personnel number with the Tornado. The difference was significant.