From 1947

so does anyone know the actual losses on the German side?, be interesting to know how they tally up with the claims

That’s where it gets difficult.

Chris Goss has researched those Luftwaffe units in his excellent book “Bloody Biscay” Crecy 1997 ISBN 0-947554 874

As Ross says above, Lt Friedrich Maeder of 13/KG-40 intercepted a Sunderland that day. Goss records that he claimed to have shot down a Sunderland 300 km NW of Brest at 18:58 – the timings match.

In his appendix for losses from III & V/KG-40, Goss does not record any aircraft lost on that day.

It is where these things get awkward. There was a battle – no doubt epic. There are claims on both sides but the detail is lost.

AllanK

Glad you posted this Andy. A colleague at work was savaged by her dog, she had her face badly mauled but was expertly stitched up by a rather skilled surgeon.

He had just come back from Afghanistan where he had learnt his skills. While grateful that she found somebody able to help heal her injuries with minimal scarring, the realisation of just what had given him that experience and skills brought what happens out there closer to home for me.

Haven’t looked in for a bit and nearly missed this.

Thanks for the update and insight into Wig Bay. Very helpful to have first hand knowledge like that.

That date in 1957 ties in with a few Sunderlands going out to keep 205/209 squadron going in Singapore. The UK Sunderland squadrons had already disbanded but the one remaining unit in the Far East kept going with the Sunderland until May 1959.

Great stuff. Thank you

Allan

Well that works if “None” is “no one” but my OED says that none is defined as “not one or not any (persons)” hence both singular and plural.

My three style guides all state that none can be singular or plural.

Partridge’s Usage and Abusage goes as far as to say that a mistaken understanding in the 18th-Century led to the idea that “no-one” became “none”, but ignored the history. He explains that “no” is a short form of “none”, as in the archaic form “thou shalt have none other gods but me”. “My” is a similar short form of “mine” as in “mine eyes” and “my eyes”

His suggested usage is that when “none = not one” then use singular and when “none = no persons”, then use the plural, but accepts it is not a hard rule.

I found that quite interesting, but then I don’t get out much.

If anyone want to correct me, I am always willing to learn.

Ok 🙂

Just for the record it should be “None of us IS perfect….. !!!

None – equivalent to zero – is neither singular nor plural so both “none of us is . . .” and “None of us are . . .” are both correct.

By referring to us – more than one – it feels more comfortable to me as plural.

I would suggest the following by preference but is and are can be substituted without error:
None on the forum is perfect
None of the forum members are perfect

I did check that one in my “troublesome words” guide first though. 😉

Mr Hamilton,

Welcome indeed. I for one would love to hear some of your memories of Wig Bay days and what was involved in looking after the Sunderlands there – I’m sure others here would too.

I’ve learnt a lot by listening to people who built and operated those flying boats – and am always happy to hear more.

Thank you for joining us.

Allan

But (‘scuse me noticing) there’s this, even after proofing:
[INDENT]Seagoon: I’d rather *hand* my coat on a nail.[/INDENT]

😮 That’s embarrassing – hilarious and inevitable.

Lesson from this one is to proof read what you type AND the stuff cut and pasted from a script.

I will proof read everything slowly
I will proof read everything
I will proof read . . .