Hi Dave,
This site:
http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/spitfire_bl628/default.htm
.. has some good photos of the unrestored cockpit of BL628. You may have seen them already, but some show an original mounting for the Mk. II Reflector Sight. They also say they have thousands of original drawings, so an email may turn up trumps?
They ask for prior permission before reproducing photos so, out of respect, here’s a link to one of the clearer shots:
http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/spitfire_bl628/images/Marion/Original%20BL628%208.jpg
Good luck with the project, I look forward to seeing the finished ‘pit!
Regards
682al
Hi Peter,
Study the attached line drawing from the Lanc Spare Parts Illustrated Appendix.
I have a pilot’s sliding window and it measures 20 inches in depth by just over 18 inches in width. The panel containing the blister is clearly wider than the sliding window, so it looks as though your panels are from something else.
I saw a stack of similar panels at an antiques auction two years ago and thought my prayers had been answered. Sadly not, after I got the tape measure out.
Regards!
There would have been a panel to the left of this one, containing the magneto switch and starter button, and another to the right with just about everything else, i.e. temp, pressure, electrical switches, maybe a clock, etc.
Interesting that the panel has been modded to take the later smaller diameter rate-of-climb indicator too. Does that tell us anything?
Yes Mark G, I was concerned about this, too. It definitely suggests a later mod. And now I look at it more closely, I’m wondering whether the R.P.M. hole is large enough for a Mk. IXB mechanical indicator or whether it has been modded for an electrical one of the Mk. IV type. I’ve seen airworthy Spitfires modded like this. If you’d like to measure the diameter, Fly.Buy, I’ll be able to confirm this for you.
That hinge arrangement is bothering me a bit though.
Me too! I’d expect two more anti-vibration mounts on the lower edge of the panel, rather than just piano hinge. If you look at the photos of the Mk. V panel that WebPilot directed us to, you can see them very clearly.
Boost Gauge Mk. IIIM* 6A/1581 (Luminous) or 6A/1582 (Fluorescent)
The Mk. IIIM/IIIM* boost gauges (-7 – + 24) seem to have become a bit of a universal type, perhaps because of post war availability. The A.P. for the Mk. IV, published in 1944, shows a much lower reading gauge of the Mk. IIIH/IIIH* type (-7 – +8).
I think the A.S.I. might be a Mk. IXA (20 – 260 m.p.h.) or Mk. IXC (60 – 260 m.p.h.) ((or Knot equivalent)), depending on what the stalling speed of a Proctor was. The cockpit photo in my A.P. has too much reflection on the glass to see the markings clearly.
A Mark I R of C Indicator is 6A/723 but the Mk. IB* version is much more common and it’s hard to distinguish between them when fitted in a panel. 6A/942 luminous or 6A/1301 fluorescent. I think either version would be right.
The altimeter will almost certainly be a Mk. XIV type, unless replaced by a post war one.
I’d suggest the standard six blind flying instruments in their usual juxta-positions, with a Mechanical R.P.M. Indicator (Mk. IXB) to the right, and probably a boost gauge, Mk. IIIH (?) below.
That leaves the two upper holes for identical 40 gallon fuel gauges, type 578 f.g., (left and right tanks) with a switch in between, as already described by Anneorac.
If this is a standard Service Proctor II or III panel, it ought to be possible to get a photocopy from the Pilot’s Notes, maybe from Hendon, to confirm all this. I’m still a bit puzzled by some of the features though…it just doesn’t look 1940-ish to me. Perhaps it’s a panel from a civilianised Proctor?
Hmmm, I love this stuff!
Thanks Anneorac!
I’ll clearly have to do some research into Proctor panels!
Any idea which mark of Proctor it is in your photos, Anneorac?
I have the A.P. for the Proctor IV and that version had a standard 6A/760 Blind Flying Panel. WebPilot directed us to the only cockpit photos of a Proctor V that I’ve seen and the panel does look very similar but differs in a number of ways, so perhaps it has been heavily modded over the years.
It would be great to be able to pin this down for future reference.
Or maybe it’s time I changed my forum name to Alanorac?
🙂
I remember one of these panel’s being offered at several aerojumbles a few years ago and we struggled to identify it then. And that one had it’s full complement of instruments, too.
It looks (early) post war to me. Either British made or maybe foreign but using British type instruments. It’s one component of the full panel and I would expect there to be a subsidiary panel at either side of this one. It looks as though it hinges forward from the lower edge to allow access to the rear of the panel.
I’m guessing it’s from a single-seat cockpit or a very snug side-by-side. Maybe from a helicopter?
I’ve discounted all the types I can bring readily to mind, so it remains a mystery to me, for the time being. Sorry!
Me and my pal exhibited a Rapide/Dominie panel at Cockpitfest last year. Nothing like this one at all!
I gave up on it fairly early on at the point where I thought I heard “the Very Senior R.A.F. Officer” agree with Suchet that “Biggles and the Few” are a cherished part of the Air Force’s history! 😮
I went back to a re-run of Das Boot on BBC 4.
Here’s a true story to add a little intrigue to this favourite debate!
Some years ago, I was shown a highly magnified, vertical photo of an aerodrome where large scale scrapping of airframes was underway, circa 1946. (Very like the one published in this month’s Aeroplane Monthly).
The ‘drome was in the U.K. but the exact location was withheld from me for “security reasons”. (But the aerodrome code letters in the Signals Square outside the Watch Office weren’t much of a challenge to interpret!)
The reason for the security was contained in an area in one corner of the airfield. There were a number of airframes lined up around the perimeter of what appeared to be a large hole. There were airframes clearly visible in the hole. Types recognisable were Spitfires and Wellingtons, what looked like Lancaster fuselages and sundry other types.
The story was that the hole (actually a disused quarry), was viewed as a hazard and the end of the war, with the suddenly available suppy of redundant airframes, was a golden opportunity to fill it and level it. After the hole was filled, a layer of stone, then topsoil, was applied to complete the transformation.
There was a plan to excavate the hole and reap the rewards. I heard later that the excavation took place. I’m told the digger went down to thirty feet until it hit what the driver decided was bedrock.
What was found? Zip, nix, nicto, nuttin’!
So what was that all about? Mis-interpretation of the photo? Wrong location (should have been twenty feet to the left or right?) Post-war scrappies beat them to it all? A cleverly forged photo by someone?
I’m fairly certain that I was not the only one to be told about this project, so maybe someone else can add more to the story as I’ve lost touch with the guy who was running it?
About Albemarles…
The quarry in Cumbria probably still contains buried fuselage sections. Or at least, that was my conclusion when I last visited about fifteen years ago.
I recall seeing a reference in Flight many years ago about a photo in a Russian aviation magazine which apparently showed fur trappers using an Albemarle to haul their catches out of the area. Late 1950’s, maybe, but who knows what survives on a disused strip somewhere?
This Albemarle throttle box came out of a Manchester scrapyard, but it has nothing to do with the bits from Cumbria.
Here’s one of the pair. Sorry they’re “grey-lumps-on-a-grey background” sort of photos, but I’m a bit pushed for time. The other unit is in similar condition but is missing both throttle levers.
682al
What does Welkin mean?
WELKIN – The sky; heaven; the firmament. Fits in with the high altitude role.
Could you send me images of your throttle boxes.
Thanks David, I may have an opportunity later today. I’ll post them here for everyones benefit. I’ve only ever seen a cut-away drawing of the Welkin and they aren’t always super-accurate when it comes to small details (no offence intended towards the artists) but the throttle boxes are quite distinctive in design and look very similar to those as sketched.
Any remaining parts/airframes survive?
I’ve got what I believe to be the remains of two Welkin throttle boxes out in the garage. From a scrapyard in the Manchester area, circa 1982.
Phil Earthey (Classic Aero Services) has posted messages elsewhere about a GR3 Harrier cockpit being available for sale or trade. Might be worth contacting him?
regards