Hi,

Here are my thoughts upon what makes a good airshow for me….

1. Not overly large, I like to be able to walk around without feeling stiffled by the crowd. Good view of the display & flight lines.

2. A wide range of display items ranging from bi-planes to fast jets, helicopters and gliders.

3. Catering is generally poor so I take my own food, although I might buy some chips and a pint of bitter to go with my picnic.

4. Good range of aviation related merchandise and quality craft stands (to keep my girlfriend happy).

5. Play area in case I have my nephews with me.

6. Nice weather.

7. Value for money (ie. under £100 all in for me, girlfriend and nephews).

Think that somes it up……………See you at Old Warden!

Steve.

Discrimination is an emotive subject for the simple reason that we all have prejudices. Be they to do with ethnicity, religion, sexuality or people who mow their lawns at 6am on a Sunday morning.

Some of the things we are we have no control over; for instance I am white, male and English. None of which I was able to choose.

Most educated people would accept that sexuality is another factor we have no control over.

Other things about me are dependent upon the choices (both good and bad) that I have made, such as the career I’ve chossen, doing a degree with the OU, my political beliefs and the friendships I have made, and I would like to think I have made these choices in a rational manner.

Religion is something that ultimately people choose, as witnessed by the fact that many people brought up in religous house holds end up rejecting their parents beliefs, and others only show an interest and become religous later in life.

I would argue that discrimination against someone for what they have no control over is absoloutely wrong. If you were born blind or into an ethnic minority would you want to be discriminated against? However I would fully accept a person’s/society’s right to discrimante based upon a person’s choices – would you want to employ a known rapist in an office full of women? a or NAZI in a Jewish Jewellers?

The problem is that religions all too often teach people to discriminate against naturally occuring groups in society ie. women, gays, ethnic minorities etc. as well as people who have made choices to follow other religions and philosophies or even just belong to a different denomintion.

To allow people to use religion as a get out so that they can ‘choose’ to discriminate would be a disaster, as then anyone could act out their prejudices by claiming that their religous beliefs required it.

Hi, Question; where is the ex-Patrick Lindsay airframe these days? and does it still fly?

Steve.

What appalls me about this thread is that no seems to be able to sit back and take a hollistic view; although some views are considered.

Democracy is more than a system of government. It is certainly a process, it is also an ideal, in many parts of the world an asspiration and for us in the west even part of how we identify ourselves. However like everything else it is flawed (for the best exploration of democracy and its pitfalls read Thucydides’ History of the Peloponessian War).

There are many forms of Democracy both direct or represenataive; and many of the countries we consider democracies have failings (the UK is a
good example where the entire upper house is niether elected nor directly accountable to the electorate). Many in Europe (and I’m sure in the USA as well) consider George Bush’s first term election as president to be flawed, given the chaos in the counting, especially in Florida where his brother just happened to be governor.

Nor are we consistant in how we seek to export this idea, talking to local Muslims they are acutely aware that whilst we seek to impose democracy in Iraq, we also prop up one of the worlds most anti-democratic and arguably evil regimes in Saudi Arabia. Double standards? Further we diplomaticly ostracise groups such as Hamas that won fairly at the polls, beacuse we don’t like their political aims and involvement in armed struggle – NB. In the invasion of Iraq we have resorted to armed struggle to impose our world view, so do we have any right to criticise them for resorting to arms?

Sadam Hussain has long been a part of the west’s inconsistant foriegn policy, during the Iran/Iraq war we feted him, and helped him to build up his armoury. At this point please reflect that Iran was a democracy (even if a very deeply flawed and perhaps superficial one) and Iraq a dictatorship. We have all seen the film of the US ambassador, prior to his invasion of Kuwait, apparently implying that the US would not interfeer with his border dispute with Kuwait.

Quite frankly our middle east policy is a bl**dy mess, literally! You cannot gain a military victory, technology only gives you a marginal advantage in urban warfare, we couldn’t in Northern Ireland. It’s low level, dirty and attritionall. Sooner or later we will leave Iraq, much like the US left Vietnam or the UK withdrew from its Empire, there will then probably be civil war(s), government(s) will emerge and democracy may or may not develope from these developements.

But then this is exactly what would probably have happened if Sadam had keeled over from a heart attack.

Military action is attractive, perhaps even glamerous, to a certain type of personallity, these people from my experience will never understand that many things can be solved by diplomacy and compromise, and can seldom see or understnd another’s viewpoint. They believe might is right – they may be correct, but I believe they are short sighted and mistaken. Although that does not mean that military action is never needed, the liberation of Kuwait being a good example.

The other viewpoint was summed up by Gandhi who defeated the British in India without firing a shot and once said ‘I am totally oppossed to violence because the good it often appears to do is but short lived, but the harm it always does is permenant.’

Looking at the situation in Iraq, by executing Sadam, we have certainly deepened the division between Shia and Sunni in Iraq and that will make any solution harder to find, and the overall situation continues to worsen; read this link to see what we’ve really achieved http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6215005.stm.

Was Gandhi right? well his approach can’t be more flawed than the militarists.

Steve.

Hi Again PII,

Just as expected; Western cultures only. Please for your own sake make the effort to see a bit more of the world its inhabitants don’t bite, not even in Papua New Guinea!

Steve.

The real question that needs to be asked of Phantom II, is upon what does he base his view of the rest of the world when comparing it to the USA.

So Phantom II, how many times have you been abroard? how many countries have you visited? and just as importantly which countries? because if it’s just the USA and UK then you’ve only seen a thin sliver of western culture.

I’ll say this the more I travel the harder it is to see myself as ‘just English’ and the more I become just human. Drinking tea with street dwellers in Delhi is humbling, discussing the civil war with a Tamil and a Sinhaleese in Kandy both disturbing and enlighteing etc etc etc……..

Get out there see OUR planet, meet your brothers and sisters, go on do it, you’ll have no regrets

Steve.

Hi Bloodnok,

That is exactly why I used the phrase ‘…often leads…’ the fact is that niether civil or military aviation progresses in issolation and that in order to have the full story of aviation available to future generations, we must preserve the civillian aspects as diligentley as the military.

It is also worth noting that the sorts of flyby wire technologies entering military service today on aircraft such as the Typhoon have been in civillian service since the introduction of the A320. As for composites surely the earliest extensive use of such techniques was on sailplanes? Yes it’s as broard as its long, yes places like Farnborough have had an extensive input on all aspects of aeronautical developement, but at the end of the day if our museums lack the civillian aspects of our aeronautical heritage we only have half the story.

Steve.