with the AMRAAM’s latest variant, and the AIM-9X, JHMCS and APG-79(V)2, the SHornet is just as capable..the APG-79(V)2 is as capable, if not more capable than the APG-63(V)3 on the F-15SG. Also, the RAAF purchased its SHornets directly from the USN, not from Boeing, so the prices are the same as those that the USN would’ve paid for them..also F-15s are also sold by Boeing..what makes you think that they would’ve sold F-15s cheaper than SHornets ? :diablo:

link

A family model F risks getting run down and killed. Once in a fight it has to kill everything. No speed or fuel for egress.

Be nice to have a ship or two in the unit where the weapons are pulled and that weight/payload is used to carry a variety of sensors for SIGINT/COMINT/ELINT and even some COM jamming ability.

There is only one B-1 at Robins now. At the front of the museum. 😀

Happy holidays all !!!!!

F-35B Rolls Out
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 12/18/2007 9:13 AM

http://tinyurl.com/yt65oc

But the good question I liked: “What is it for?”

why do you keep saying this when you know it’s too early for large batches of firm orders?

check back in 7 years and you’ll see your orders

until then, it’s not an issue

as for countries looking at alternatives, well of course, they would be stupid not to

if there is some huge problem with the F-35 they need a backup plan, but it is just that, a BACKUP plan

also, when negotiating, you always have a credible alternative to help get you the best price. Saying this is your one and only choice is just asking to get taken for a ride

…..check back in 7 years and you’ll see your orders

until then, it’s not an issue…..

Funny though that LM had a big project to get JSF partners to sign on for early orders, that was important for them. And it was an issue for them Why? Because SDD is running out of cash and will need more above and beyond the current budget. Their “Tiger Team” didn’t get the early orders this year they wanted. However they did follow the only money available out there: The increase this year of U.S. foreign military aid to Israel. Hence the push on that marketing effort. Again as stated early in the JSF business plan, unit prices don’t flatten out until around 1500 orders or so. Meanwhile the project will be on a C-5_upgrade style of cost climb, where ( especially considering the USAF stretch out of orders ) the longer something is extended, the higher the cost of manpower and material become. The U.S. taxpayer will eat this and doubtful how many will actually be made. 7 years? Norway and the Netherlands will make a decision long before that time. One which may, or may not include the JSF as part of their force. “Affordable stealth” indeed.

The Saudi’s didn’t select the Typhoon over the F-35. As the F-35 won’t be available for many years. The Saudi’s have a vested interest to buy from several parties. As she depends heavily on Western Protection. (not new to anyone here) Remember, it purchased European Tornado’s (GR-1’s & ADV) and American F-15’s. Clearly, the Eagle was vastly superior to the ADV in the Air Superiority Role. Yet, the Saudi are smart to spread there wealth around as do many of the other wealthy Midddle Eastern Countries. So, the current order of Typhoons are likely to replace mainly ADV’s. Personally, there is little doubt that down the road as the Saudi remaining fleet gets older. F-35’s will be a high priority especially considering the F-22 is off the table.

As for price it will be right in the ball park with most contemporaries. The current Super Hornet goes for 95-100 million per copy and the Raptor 130+. Really, what do you think your average Typhoon or Rafale goes for? Remember, with the exception of the Raptor all are 4.5 Generation Fighters not 5th Generation like the F-22, F-35, and forthcoming PAK-FA. Also, as numbers ramp up the F-35 will likely decrease in price because of the sheer volume. Its very likely the F-35 will be built it greater numbers than the Typhoon, Rafale, and Raptor combined. (i.e. far greater):D

Super Block II is around the mid 50’s for Es and high 50s low low 60s for the two seat with the attack console.

The numbers of F-35s to be bought is unknown as foreign team members have decided to wait later until the cost comes down. However that may not happen as the USAF is broke. As a response to one cost rise they trailed out their JSF orders all the way out to 2038-2040 and cut 48 from the total. This is interesting because it is just a vapor plan. There is nothing that says for example X amount of funds WILL be spent/authorized by congress for airframe Y in the year 2025. Those early orders per year were important. Now there are less USAF orders per year. Which won’t help at this critical time of trying to get non-U.S. members to sign on.

The USN has little money and is more worried about shipbuilding. ( one reason they like the Super, it is cheap. ). Remember too that early early on in the idea phase of JSF, when asked what Navy wanted in a JSF, it was the following: 2 person crew, 1000 mile radius, two engines. Super fits more of their requirements than JSF. If UCAS D works for the navy and doesn’t crash and burn on the carrier deck, JSF is going to have real problems. USN JSF orders have already shrunk.

If you add up all the partner concerns at this time there are a lot of sales question marks. Claims of 2400-2500 U.S. airframes and 700 export airframes are just numbers and nothing more. More hope than anything. The cost won’t level out on the JSF until there are around 1500 completed. Funny too is if you look at a May 2007 sales brief of all the potential JSF customers for the future that were not on the existing team, every body and their brother was on there. …. Except Israel. Now Israel with it’s potential FMS deal in the coming years will buff up the orders that Italy “moved to the right” on their production slots. Funnier too is that IDF JSFs would be paid for with U.S. taxpayer military aid. And even funnier is that as part of the Team JSF deal…”Partner” nations that helped in the development of JSF, get kickback/payments from FMS fees of future FMS sales. How many times can you launder U.S. taxpayer money?

Here is the current build schedule.

2008 defense spending:

Procurement: 12 planes, $2.65 billion

Research and development: $3.5 billion

Planned production

Lot 1, 2006-09: two planes

Lot 2, 2007-10: 12 planes

Lot 3, 2008-11: 16 planes

Lot 4, 2009-12: 32 planes

Lot 5, 2010-13: 47 planes

Lot 6, 2011-14: 118 planes

A long way until that magical 1500.

Show me proof of orders ( of course after proof of a working Block III jet ) and I’ll be more impressed.

Here is a summary of some of the export team outlook.

Great Britain: 138 -MOD procurement is in a shambles. Every year something is cut. Operation: Shoestring. Purchasing 3 F-35s for testing. “Try before you buy”.

Italy: 131 -Moved orders “to the right” – These slots gave enough room for a possible Israeli traditional U.S. foreign military sales deal. This means that if the deal goes through, the Israeli aircraft will be mostly paid for with U.S. taxpayer funded foreign military aid. Price on Lockheed Martin briefing to Israeli press shows F-35 acquisition cost about the same as an F-16.

Australia: 100 – Unknown at this time. The new government may review the process with several avenues of approach. Purchasing one airframe and assisting with testing and a “try before you buy” approach may be the way to go.

Turkey: 100 – Still thinking in terms of U.S. FMS deals with offsets.

Netherlands: 85 – Purchased one test aircraft. “Try before you buy”. With cost climb expect this order to be half.

Canada: 60 – Has formed a special fighter board to study what it’s needs are.

Denmark: 48 – Looking at the Saab Gripen. If it purchases the Gripen instead, it will be 36 airframes. Also Saab is handing over some offsets in this proposal.

Norway: 48 – Looking at Gripen, EF-2000 Typhoon and F-35.