Weren’t those sold to Venezuela CF-5s?

Yes, they also got some CF-5.

IIRC the CF-5 was much the same as the NF-5, but built for the Canadian air force.

No, the Canadian version was different from those for the rest of the world. Most notably: mid air refueling and more powerful engines: J-85-CAN-15’s.

There are some twelve main points of deference between the Dutch model and the baseline one:
– stronger wings
– take-off flaps
– doppler rader
– de-icing equipment
– two positions for take of the nose wheel
– reinforced canopy
– emergency hook
– more powerful engines.

The Canadian CF-5A/D is older then the NF-5A/B series. Apparently some features described above are also in the CF-5 series.

After they were decommissioned they were given to:
– Turkey (60) status?
– Greece (12) retired

Sold to:
– Venezuela (7) status?

I know the Turkish Star used to fly them. So I wonder if they were given a new lease of life, and under went the upgrade in Turkish service.

So what is the bird’s status after 22 years (1969-1991) of Dutch service and 18 years (1990-present) of foreign service.

I am fairly certain that Fokker assembled F104s, F16s and I think also NF-5s (hence the N in NF).

F-104 / F-16 yes, NF-5A/B nope. The NF-5 was (and still is) a modified variant of the F-5. The Dutch demanded a lot of changes (excually the wing is forms the basis of the E/F) and Northrop didn’t want to do the research. At the time Canadair was looking for work and was interested in building it, so they did. The research was payed for by the Dutch and did a lot of groundwork for the E/F series (still waiting for the compensation Northrop :diablo: ), the Dutch AF does have limited capability to test new things, we have a “test groep” within 323sq. Other question. I know the Turks still fly the NF-5 and some were sold to Venezuela. Does anyone know how many are still in the air?

The Dutch still do research, mainly Delft University.

To come back to the first post. There is no economic basis for such a plane. Why bother developing a plane, as your home market is only 80-100 fighters anyway? But I think we as a nation have enough knowhow and research capability to do it if we put our minds to it. 😀

Yes they did attack, but it wasn’t the first time. It was however the first time that they came to the rescue of Dutch forces. 😎

Are these all going to Air France or are some destinated for the KLM?

I agree, this isn’t the mean reason that things are going downhill for Airbus, but it is a contributing factor. If the Euro-Dollar exchange rate is going to change so will the position of Boeing. It isn’t something anyone has any control over. I seem to remember that the Dollar rate was one of the main factors in the downfall of Fokker.

Hmm….the EUR/USD issue is a red herring.
Always be wary of people who offer glib bullet point solutions to complex industrial problems. But having said that this is my 2c worth:

😎

– Why must all sales be in USD? Some customers would like to pay in EUR (Iran!! Russia!! State owned EU airlines!!)

Well if you have an offer from Boeing which is significant less because of the Euro-Dollar exchange then you are more likely to choose for the American product, even though you are in Europe and your hole business cost structure is in Euro’s.

– Why must all costs be in EUR? Airbus has strength with suppliers and could pay them partly in USD.

Well, yes and no. You are diverting the problem to subcontractors. If they are in Euro zone all their cost will be in Euro’s so that subcontractor might go bust, and that is not in the interest of Airbus either.

– Why can’t some production or R&D be done in the US, meaning you match USD revenues and USD expenses (a natural hedge).

? Well R&D = cost no revenues. R&D is at the core of the business so you want it to be done close to home. And you have to move all the current employees to America.

Fact is the company stuffed up big time with the A380. That is nobody’s fault except Airbus’s and has nothing to do with exchange rates.

True. Let’s see what happens in 5 to 7 years time. Might still become a hit, we don’t know yet.

EDIT: Cost control can be improved. Sometimes suppliers are chosen for political reasons not commercial ones. I am not going to elaborate, but if you’re interested, do some public domain searching on Industrial Offset arrangements involving EADS. This goes above and beyond the issues caused by socialist owners insisting on work allocations etc.

Yes. They should set up a more businesslike structure. A lot to gain there.

So that were my two cents :diablo: