Ross_McNeillIfs and mights at the moment.
I might put in a bid for one of the larger items. If I win it I would be arranging a flat bed to take it back to the West Midlands.
Divi of transport costs sway any potential bidders for other lots?
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillI recall looking at this and have a note that If the wings were Stirling then a possible identity was EF494 on the night 8/9 Oct 1943.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillMultiple threads cause so much confusion on my poor brain..
BF516
50 49 30.0N
000 24 30.0E
PA (Position approximate chart symbol)
12/09/75
Permission has been given to the recovery of a Stirling from approx NG TQ 689054 (SC4(AIR)ROOM 0/3 Metropole Bldg).
RAF PMA Letter to R McNeill 24/02/98
No record of licence issued and no confirmation of recovery. PMA/133159/4(CS)1b(2(a(RAF).
So approximate position, permission given around time of PMA Act but nothing large declared as recovered subsequently apart from the fragments on this thread.
Also no new chart updates due to ongoing scans over the last 40 years so I would put this on the unlikely to still exist spike.
Ross
Ross_McNeillMark,
There is a need to check the upto date info on 455 before planning recovery operations
The chart position and condition is from a dive report on 18th May 1970 (40 years ago!).
“A four engined bomber upside down with two very large wheels and one wing. All engines are here.
Least depth over wreck 5 fathoms 1 foot, height above sea bed is 8 feet.”
It had been trawled as the divers were recovering the nets off the fastener.
On 3rd Dec 1980 (30 years ago)
Nothing found during intensive search within 400 metres of position. (Bulldog HI 37A/77-Wk 160)
So although the chart designator was left it is most likely that the wreck collapsed and dispersed within 10 years of discovery.
EF311 was in even worse state in reports of the 1990s
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillCoo…
WB975 logged quite a few flights in it at Kirknewton and even more time towing it to the flight line in a grotty yellow air portable landy from either the hangar or where it landed after a supposed spot landing.
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Tony,
Aha the crash of AH559 N/201 on 4/11/42.
F/Sgt Fish
W/O Smith
P/O H Bardsley
Sgt R Leese
P/O E J Sleigh
Sgt J B Ritchie
Sgt T McL Millar
W/O J L R Keough
Sgt E T Jones
F/Sgt G Green
Op: Escort, Gibraltar, 05:40 hrs
Detailed to escort KMFI but crashed on take off. Sgt Leese and W/O Keough are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial while the rest of the crew are listed on the Malta Memorial.
Fish and Smith survived the crash.
Hi Dave,
No problems all ranks/names are as per period documents for my Med losses, they still need to be cross referenced to other primary documents to wring out the transcription errors.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillLosses of Coastal were fewer but also the numbers of aircraft employed were less.
I suspect that loss rate would still be a significant percentage but agree nowhere near those of Bomber Command in the 1943/44 period.
What is significantly different is how few Coastal Aircrew ended up as PoW and how many more than Bomber Command have no known graves.
Even PoW for a coastal man had it’s risks
10/09/42
202 Sqn
Catalina I
AJ162
Coded F
Op: Patrol, Gibraltar, Time Up 12:11 hrs
F/Sgt J W Pilling
P/O J G Pope
F/Sgt R S Rice RCAF
Sgt R Ainsworth
Sgt T Kirkham
Sgt W Law
Sgt J MacN Sloan
Sgt A D Smith (PoW)
LAC H W Long (PoW)
Failed to return. All those killed are commemorated on the Malta Memorial.
1835 MTBI VM GMRS 0530-235-10
1900 MTB2 VM previously reported has sighted a/c and opened fire
1915 MFB1 CPP Lat & Long (received by a/c)
1900 MFB2 Ask m/v to identify. If unsatifactory attack with D/Cs (received by a/c)
1932 MFB3 Your 1900 FKF (received by a/c)
2000 MFB4 After attack shadow to PLE Report change of course and speed.
2015 MFB5 My 1900 Reply at once
A/c last heard at 2040 when asking for repeat of 4th message. A/C has not returned.
AIR27/1183
Catalina F/202 was airborne at 12:11 hrs on A/S patrol. Aircraft sighted and reported a suspicious M/V. The position given was thought to be 4205N 1530W but the signal was corrupt. Aircraft was ordered to attack and to afterwards shadow to prudent limit of endurance. Nothing has since been heard of F/202, the latest time being 20:40 hrs when the aircraft was in communication with base.
AIR24/715
Although I have listed Smith and Long as PoW they appear on no lists for Germany or Italy.
The ship was a blockade runner who shot down the Cat when she closed to investigate. Smith and Long were busy throwing out burning ammo when the aircraft blew up in mid-air. Both awoke in the water, one with his leg blown off. The steamer stopped to pick them up then continued its voyage.
The german doctor on board saved the lives of the injured aircrew by transferring blood from ships crew to airmen by means of a syringe.
The vessel did not stop until it reached it’s destination of Java where the two men were handed over the the Japanese.
They were seperated and passed through a number of camps on the Death Railway, always being treated as informant/spies by other PoWs because of their lack of knowledge of Far East Command/Operations.
Eventually they were transferred to Japan and knew that they would be put to death if the Allies landed on Japan but were released alive after the bombs were dropped. (one of them was actually down a mine in Nagasaki when the bomb was dropped).
Finally returned to the UK it was the first time that their parents were told that their sons were alive.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Moggy,
(CWGC denotes rank on notification of death, ORBS etc denote the rank known on squadron at time of loss. Promotions etc were often in the pipeline but not official at unit level..RCAF delays seem to be common with NCO aircrew being commissioned between loss and death recording)
That’s the tasking in the Group ORB.
S was not exclusive for Sydney it depends on the list and time period. Also denotes Sydney Cape Breton, Suez, Iceland, Singapore, Calcutta, Sierra Leone etc. V also stood for Valletta, Sydney and Townsville etc.
Below is a partial list of confirmed convoy codes
Convoys
BB Belfast to Bristol Channel
CE St.Helens IOW to Southend
CW Southend to St.Helens IOW
DS Clyde to Reykjavik (Military)
EC Southend to Clyde, Loch Ewe or Oban (Non Stop)
EN Methil to Oban
FM Southend to Methil
HG Gibraltar to UK
HX Halifax to UK
HM Holyhead to Milford Haven
MH Milford Haven to Holyhead
*OG UK to Gibraltar
*ON UK to North America (North of and including Jacksonville, Florida, Panama, West Indies and Gulf Ports)
*OS UK to West Africa including sections to West Indies and South Atlantic Ports
• OG, ON, OS also indicate Liverpool sections before r/v with other sections ( C) (M) (O) (U) after O convoys indicate Clyde, Milford Haven, Oban, Loch Ewe sections.
PQ Iceland to North Russia
PW Portsmouth to Bristol Channel calling Falmouth and Dartmouth
QP North Russia to Iceland
RU Reykjavik to Lock Ewe
SC Sydney, Cape Breton to UK
SD Reykjavik to Clyde (Military)
SL Sierra Leone to UK
UR Loch Ewe to Reykjavik
WN Oban to Methil
WP Bristol Channel to Portsmouth
CT UK to Canada (Military)
TC Canada to UK
NA Canada to UK (Intermediate TC Convoys, Military)
AT10 American Troops to Northern Ireland
AB Aden to Bombay
AC Alexandria to Crete (obsolete)
AN Alexandria to Piraeus (obsolete)
AS Piraeus to Alexandria (obsolete)
AT Alexandria to Torbruk
BA Bombay to Red Sea Ports (military)
BM1 India to Malaya (military)
BN Bombay to Suez (not running)
BP Bombay to Basra (military)
BS Suez to Straits of Jubal (not running, military)
CF Cape to West Africa
CM Cape, Durban or Mombasa to Red Sea ports (military)
DM Durban to Malaya (military)
JS Colombo to Singapore (Combined military and trade)
LE Port Said or Alexandria to Famagusta, Haifa or Bierut
LY Port Said or Alexandria to Cyprus or Palestine
MA Mombasa to Aden (military)
ME Malta to Alexandria (suspended pro tem)
MG Malta to Gibraltar
MS Melbourne to Singapore (Combined Military and Trade)
MW Alexandria to Malta
MX India to Port Blair (military)
NA Canada to UK (Intermediate TC convoys, military)
SJ Singapore to Colombo (Combined military and trade)
SM Singapore to Melbourne (combined military and trade)
SR Calcutta to Rangoon (military)
SS Calcutta to Singapore (military)
ST Sierra Leone to Takoradi
SU Suez to Australia (returning ex W.S. Troopers
SW Suex to Durban (military)
TA Torbruk to Alexandria
US Australia to Suez
VK Sydney (NSW) to Wellington
WS UK to Suez (military)
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Moggy,
The crew casualties were:
F/O M J French
Sgt E McKim
P/O G E McNaughton RAAF
Sgt C Field
Sgt G J Orton
Sgt G T W Gibson
Sgt E J Smith
F/Sgt R J G Campbell
Sgt E H S Marsh
Sgt I L MacLean
David, DA-D was tasked with escort to convoy SV8 rather than an A/S patrol but all the other details give are correct.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillOnline London Gazette give quite a bit, including units and DFC.
Search on all words Harland 129961
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/all=harland+129961/start=1
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillForm 700 completed, forum open
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHang fire lads and lassies were upgrading so up and down.
Ross
Ross_McNeillThe main site has been ported over and is active
but the forum is proving difficult.
At the moment it’s not entertaining the extensive archives in search mode.
The techs have resorted to reading the manual..and ordering pizza..but not swearing at the screens yet.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Tony,
Just the ISP moving the files to a new server over the next few hours.
Try going in through the http://www.rafcommands.com front door to refresh your cookies after they do the deed.
In the meantime the direct to forum is:
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/index.php
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Paul,
The crew were from Andover and were landing to collect sparkplugs brought to the aerodrome by car from Hartlebury MU.
Overshot in nil wind conditions and hit a car before collecting the kids sitting on the railings.
No injury to crew but Beryl Patricia Smith killed, her friend Enda Waddell and three others were injured.
Regards
Ross
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