How do you know no one is looking?
I for one am following this build very closely, and look forward to further instalments; is there any chance in the future, that once assembled, it may make the journey to hallowed turf?
Bout time Cees!
Unless you get too big for your boots, and extend it beyond the maximum dimensions laid down by the “British Cockpits association”, in which case there will be those who will moan (albeit quietly)……
Its interesting what you say there, when I was growing up, I was solely interested in modern military aircraft, especially the USAF.
When many of the USAFE bases closed and there were fewer airshows, I branched out as it were.
Now I love WWI aviation, WWII aviation especially the BoB and the activities of the USAAF’s 8th Air Force, Vietnam…….the list goes on.
The only area of aviation holding zilch interest is the airliner world.Someone mentioned Alexandra Churchill, its very refreshing to see a young aviation historian perpetuating the memory of the World War pilots.
It was fascinating to see the original notes for Flying Fury, can anyone book an appointment with ‘DoRIS’ at Hendon, or do you have to be an historian researching for a book to view the archives?
Anybody can use the research / archive facility at Hendon, just phone to make an appointment; thankfully the pseudo academic snobbery that predominates this forum, does not apply there, and the staff are very helpfull.
James, your personal opinion of my abilities are worthless, you have no qualifications to judge me, or indeed anyone else (within the subject matter).
The important thing here, is not whether you respect my opinion, but whether this debate (together with others like it) will have any effect on the way that subsequent digs are conducted, bearing in mind that many of the leading exponents of wreckology, have contributed to this thread, without , it has to be said, the sort of condecending remarks that form the basis of most of your posts.
There was no presumption on my behalf, in my mind there are no boundaries restricting the attainment of excellence in more than one field, however modern society, has no need for the multiskilled; whilst a designer may be capable of building something he has designed, there isn’t any requirement for him to do so.
May I respectfully suggest that as you have no idea whether I may (or may not) be able to reproduce a middle age sword, you shouldn’t be so swift in condemnation; I believe the presumption (in this case) is yours.
No, “I didn’t clean it”…….and no, an archaeologist wouldn’t be able to establish the exact cause of the detonation,that would be the job of a mechanical engineer, as would be the almost impossible task of stripping a seized Merlin without any damage resulting.
There are several predisposing factors, that are associated with this phenomenon, what they could tell you, is that the Russians did use low grade fuel, and out of the 3 main causes of detonation, that would be the favorite, (given that the whole point of high octane fuel is to resist detonation); however they wouldn’t be using their skills as an archaeologist, to do this, as this is a documented fact, written, not by an archaeologist, but an engineer.
What should be understood here, is that wreckology or battle field detective work, although not an exact science, is an amalgam of skills, the more skilled people on board the better the result; as regards to how many cases do we know the causes, how many crashes were put down to pilot error, when in fact the real cause of the crash lies at the bottom of a very deep hole?
Why don’t we just call it wreckology, shake hands, and go and play in our own gardens;there is quite obviously no agreeing on this one.
Clearly the process of identifying a potential site, establishing what A/C it is, (and whether occupied or not) the liason with the land owner, the ministry, HSE; in the case of the ministry obtaining and filling in the forms with information gleaned probably from a visit to Hendon, sifting through thousands of crash reports, isn’t archaeology, but it isn’t metal detecting with a spade either.
In today’s world the emphasis is to establish what A/C it is, who was flying it, why it crashed, who was responsible for it crashing, and what became of the protagonists.
I had a Hurricane engine recovered from Russia “shot down”,clearly the plane had crashed, but on stripping the engine I discovered the cause was engine failure due to detonation, caused by (in all probability) poor grade Rusky petrol; would an archaeologist have been able to establish that? would a “wreck hunter” have known either? perhaps there is a case for more people to be involved, rather than less.
Recently a forum member has sold (on ebay) the seat attachment bracket for the hand crank handle,(I seem to remember it was for the mkI; perhaps he can shed some light on the subject.
The pilot on the left is wearing the “detachable uppers” flying boots; what period were they from?
The thing that caught my eye was the cannon blister, much flatter than the late types, and 2 piece construction.
Is there any chance that this is a mk1b, I note (from elsewhere on the web)that they were issued to 92 sqn; the hood doesn’t appear to have a top blister, and is definately slab sided.
No! I regret to say that aircraft enthusiasts should only be allowed to possibly pin-point the precise spot where an a/c may have impacted the ground. They should NOT, under any circumstances, be allowed to take part in the possible excavation unless they have had archaeological training AND are under the direction of qualified supervisors. There is nothing worse than an enthusiastic amateur!
As to there being human remains in a single-crewed a/c that impacted the ground at very high speed then there might be a case – on intellectual grounds – for recovering “the bits” and re-uniting the Pilot with his mates in any Sqn, or National, Cemetery – subject, always, to the wishes of the NoK.
Where the a/c was multi-crewed you must realise that they were all volunteers and my thoughts – on intellectual grounds – are to leave ’em where they lie, undisturbed, with their mates, but to mark the spot in some specific way.
During my archaeological training it became apparent that after the Roman invasion of Britain there were several Iron Age hill-forts that had been ‘done over’ by the Romans. There were Iron Age burials on the site of the battle-field – War Graves. On some occasions it was obvious that The Fallen had been buried (albeit in makeshift graves) but in accordance with their “religious rites” – a small offering for whatever ‘afterlife’ they believed in. This ‘clearing up of the battlefield’ was done by our equivalent of their Warrant Officers (assuming any on the losing side survived!). It also happened at Goose Green in the Falklands!
What I’m trying to say is that if I’d been shot in the Turkish invasion of Cyprus, or trodden on an anti-personnel mine on Stanley Airfield, then I think that my wishes would have been “Just leave me here (possibly with any of my mates), and don’t disturb me – not even in the pursuit of technical accuracy”.
It all depends upon which end of the intellectual telescope you are looking though when you make pronouncements on this subject! War Graves are a very difficult subject, and depend on the intellectual mood at the time – and in the future.
How, for example, should the graves of The Fallen in the recent “troubles” in N Ireland be treated. Pause, I would think for some considerable thought! Not an easy subject.
Just one KOS’s thoughts.
HTH
Resmoroh
But what if you didn’t want to be in Port Stanley, absolutely hated it in fact, and you weren’t with your mates, but you wanted to be near your family, so that they may visit you , mourn you, and eventually come to terms with your loss?
An A7 /A10 plunger golden flash, with attached caravan; I seem to remember the “flash” was more of a reddy yellow, when it backfired through the carb, and set alight your trousers….
Looking at the the back of the chateau, it’s hard to believe (given the complexity of the scaffolding) that it wouldn’t have been easier, to have fabricated a fourth wall instead (obviously without the stone effect).
Thats the trouble with war, it never solves anything, but is still necessary.
A lot of good men died going to war to fullfill our obligation to protect Poland, and those that survived, watched on, as it happened all over again.
Hindsights a wonderfull thing, but I do wonder if it wouldn’t have been better to let Germany and Russia slug it out on their own, it couldn’t have been any worse for Poland, and the victor (whomever), would have been seriously weakened.
The point I was making, r.e the model club, is that Maldon council served them with a notice, causing them to make the application for the certificate; had they failed to do so, or else the application had been rejected, they would have been served with an enforcement notice.
The access road is subject to a covenant (in the contract of sale) resticting the weight of vehicles, presumably because there are 2 other farm business’s that are adjacent to the airfield, both using the road.
The footpath, however is a far bigger obstacle, any member of the public, can complain/object to A/C movements, and there are a lot of ramblers in Esssex (take it from me!)
I do however wish them well, if indeed they intend to restore the buildings, and bring some life back to the place; my biggest concern when I tendered for lot 2, was for the future of lot1, as the dividing line ran right through the middle of the site, (along the access road).
Instead of blaming Britain for Stalin’s paranoid psychopathy, how about the other allies, all charged with maintaining boundarys and order; where was the US? they came out of the war no longer in recession,with Britain owing them more money than you can shake a stick at, strategic bases in Britain, Germany, west indies, and most of the captured “Nazi” technology and scientists.
Wasn’t the original boundaries and territory of Poland (set up after the treaty of versailles) jointly policed /enforced by Britain, France, and the US, and didn’t the US pull out of occupation, ending their responsibility?