Getting the hulls built in somewhere like Romania would be acceptable – it could be ‘sold’ to the public as a NATO friendship measure, where building in China would just be seen as sending jobs overseas. It would be a hard sell anyway, but it is not necessarily a bad idea – especially if you could ‘twin’ shipyards (i.e. a UK shipyard connects itself to a Romanian shipyard, and can use many of the UK workers as ‘team leaders’).
If it were to be brought back, it would be a major burden on the sysops guys, who are already having to deal with quite a few incidents as it is – they are posters as well, and it can hardly be fun having to police the actions of the few bad apples as it is.
Only sort-of Ron, it actually shows how unwilling many in the US government are to accept having partners rather than clients. The recent problems with both Australia and the UK show this particularly strongly – the two best allies of the US, and yet they both have serious problems getting proper cooperation, cancellation of the F-136, without consulting the only Tier 1 partner also shows this very well.
The problem was that the Army forum tended to become a flame-war, in fact, a huge percentage of the threads descended to that point. It was sad, because some of the threads were very interesting, but it was too much of a flame-magnet.
One thing to say is that the F-15 is very capable as a bomb truck, which is very important now – it can easily carry 24 small diameter bombs, which is a very useful ability. The problem is that combat comes in phases, and some are now suggesting that once enemy air defenses are taken down, stealth will not be as important as bomb truck capability.
Having seen the suggestions for the new FB-22, whereby stealthy wing pods act as internal bomb bays, it would be interesting to see the regular F-22 being fitted with a smaller version, allowing 2000lb class weapons to be carried. Such pods would boost the F-22 stealthy weapons carriage up to a similar level to the JSF (since the pods would have the same capability as the JSFs weapons bays). The problem being that this would hurt the JSF program – if the F-22 turned into a bomb truck, then there would be more people arguing for a larger Raptor fleet, even at the cost of the JSF.
The problem with the JSF is really timing – at the moment, nobody has actually put it into service, so everyone is sceptical. If it proves itself to be a good fighter, then order numbers may go back upwards, and as production gets underway, unit costs may come down. Once everyone knows what they would be buying, then it will probably be popular, but there are a few years to go before that happens, so it is difficult to know what will happen – RAM coatings, UCAVs, a lot can happen in ten years!
As for US support, it is generally very good, though certain aspects can be a bit more difficult – for instance integration of new weapons can be an issue. The Dutch carry out testing now for their F-16A/Bs, since the US has switched to later models. It is not a big issue, and most product support is excellent, with F-5s, F-4s, A-4s and so on still being supported.
One problem with European stealth projects is that the UK were tied to agreements with the US (the UK were involved in projects like Have Blue etc, and had almost full access to US stealth tech, but could not share it with European partners). This meant that a British stealth project would have to be joint with the US (since the UK could not support its own stealth fighter project), or not at all. Since the UK always wanted to do joint projects with Europe, it basically ruled out any stealth projects. Also, when the Eurofighter project started, stealth had not made its combat debut, and still relied heavily on facetting.
Europe needs to drop the phobia about buying American equipment, and America needs to accept that cooperation is necessary, and good for business!
Might not be the worst idea – delay JSF procurement by a couple of years, and buy more Raptors and Strike Eagles. It had always been seen as a little questionable moving the JSF into the production phase before testing was even close to complete – as seen with the Airbus A-380, you can find yourself having to make expensive changes on the production line, and delay deliveries and increase prices.
It is a great pity they did not go for an LCAC – as proved during the opening stages of OIF/Telic, the UK could not move any light tanks ashore due to the mining, yet an LCAC would have avoided this. If they had fitted the LSDs to carry LCACs, then they could have remained a greater distance offshore, and thus a lot safer. Also, an amphibious task force with 2 LPDs and 4 LSDs (each with 2 LCACs, each with 60 ton payload) would enable 720 tons of supplies to be brought ashore in each movement, with the ships up to 100 miles offshore!
ELP has made a valid point – it is all very impressive that the Mig-35 and assorted versions of the Flanker can dance the aerial tango, but the reality is that an AIM-9X can dance it a bit faster! Thrust vectoring is great, but if given the choice of throwing the aircraft around the skies or simply moving your head, then it is obvious which one is more likely to work. The key to combatting the more agile enemy fighters is superior tactics, and part of that is knowing not to try and get into a turning fight – look at the success the F-4 Phantoms had in Vietnam once the Top Gun program got running. A good example being Lt (Duke) Cunningham, shooting down much more agile Migs in an F-4J, Showtime 100, who became the first ace of the conflict, with his RIO Lt(JG) Willie Driscoll.
Nowadays though, they just remove the wings, and fly them down in a C-17 apparently, and have found it much easier. Even though you need to do some reassembly, it is less hassle to reassemble the aircraft than to fly it all the way down there.
As for abandoning the islands, I doubt it, as already mentioned, there is a huge oil field round the islands, which will become economically viable in a few years time. The oil drilling technology just a few years back meant that drilling at any major depth was not economically viable, but with increased oil prices and improved drilling technology, deep drilling is now possible. Unless of course the government ‘negotiates’ away the islands, as they seem to like doing.
The best bet for dealing with neighbours with Flankers would be to simply put the F-16s through the CCIP program, and integrate JHMCS and AIM-9X. The ideal would probably to get more F-16s from the US (and possibly Singapore eventually), upgrade them, and do a deal with Sweden, whereby instead of buying Gripens, you just get a few Erieyes.
As for the use of chickens in barter, there is nothing unusual about it – many nations use palm oil and other products in exchange. Also, what else are you going to do with millions of frozen chickens? It is still amusing though! :diablo:
Or stealthy chickens…
Ahh, sorry, but the idea of how many chickens a dozen JSFs would cost just boggles the mind… :diablo:
I doubt Thailand would buy JSFs, not for many years – they have few no real air threats, and little need for top of the line fighters. They will probably rely on F-16s and Chickenjets (Gripens or more Vipers), hopefully supplemented by Erieye AEW planes. Probably the best bet is to save up some extra chickens, and buy both the Gripens (perhaps some of the -A models that Sweden is retiring early) with AEW planes, and some more F-16s.
Sweden certainly seem willing to accept chickens in barter, and the US was apparently willing to work something out.