RE: Just a thought

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-07-02 AT 02:24 PM (GMT)]Skythe is right, that was due the Union’s common foreign and defence policy. You know, actually the EU has two seats in the security council (France and the UK), because whatever will come out of it, UK and France have to make the same decissions. Therefor saying that Britons are not a part of Europe is wrong, because they are the ones who also make the decissions (look at Chris Pattern, the EU commissioner of foreign affairs, who’s British).

Generalising is wrong when dealing with racial issues, but I think its not wrong when you adapt if for politics. I mean, not everybody in America is pro-Bush, but still, for the sake of argument, Bush is the leader of the Americans (and here are the problems with democracy) and represents them. Get my point?

True Mongu, Tatcher was anti-European, but she was more anti … I think she was one of the biggest mistakes that ever came out of the UK. Don’t take this personnal I hope. 😀

Snaky Boy

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-07-02 AT 11:49 AM (GMT)]Nice of you to live in a western country as the UK, Snake. But do not forget this, you don’t owe it to yourself, but to other people who have worked (or even fought) for it. I think your remark is not appropriate, and I can see you have no experience with asylum seakers what-so ever. NOT HERE SUNSHINE. This kind of remarks make me wanna puke, not all asylum seakers are a bunch of money-sucking maffia gangs, my best friend. The reason why your airport has been closed is not because of these asylum seakers, but because it was probably near banckrupty. The gov’t won’t close a profit making airport unless it has to. So don’t come with your weak arguments of the local population having to pay for them. It’s our goddamn duty to pay for these people.

These wrong facts are used by extreme right parties throughout Europe to find voters. It’s a shame I tell you!!! In Belgium we have a very nice name for these kind of people suffering from this: the NIMBY-people (NOT IN MY BACKYARD). I have respect for conservative people, but this makes me sick. I don’t want to live in such a Europe.

RE: Me again,

I was not comparing their actions Mongu, only the fact that they thought their nations could better do it alone, so they are nationalists. I do not consider de Gaulle as a hero of the french people; I think he was a cheap nationalist, a racist … and so was Churchil. They were all democratic leaders, Franco was not, but he managed to isolate Spain from the rest of Europe for more than 5 decades just because he thought Spain could survive on its own. Get my point?

RE: IDF/AF F-16 attack goes wrong

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-07-02 AT 07:44 AM (GMT)]Comparable situations :

You drive 160 mph with a Ferrari in a densily populated area, and then you drive over some kids. Was it you intention to hurt them? No, but the consequences are : dead children. In a democracy that’s considered to be “murder in the second degree”, and you’ll be jailed for at least 7-15 years here.

Ariel Sharon has said the action was a succes. Proofs again what kind of ‘inhuman’ this man really is for the public opinion. I’m really beginning to believe Mongu when he said people see him as an Israeli Hitler.

Anyway, the Eur Union has said it was an immoral action, not worthy a democracy and the Swedish minister of foriegn affairs said it was a crime against humanity. Ofcourse, nobody cares what the EU, the Arab league, the UN or Russia think, but even the US said the action was wrong and immoral.

RE: IDF/AF F-16 attack goes wrong

Anyway, Israel should not act is if it was a huge mistake they made. Everybody knows the risks of doing such operations, and AFAIK, F-16’s are not accurate enough to see the difference between a terrorist and a school kid. I know they did not want to kill the innocents, but if they continue using F-16s over and over again, they should have known what the risks are.

Me again,

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-07-02 AT 05:09 PM (GMT)]Yes, but we are also generalising the Americans. What Skythe probably means is the Europeans who are on this forum, and have a similar opinion. There are a lot of differences between America and Europe (not cultural, but political), but the Union is not the leftist paradise, in fact, in many ways, the Union is a lot more conservative than the States. Rivalries between two economical superpowers will always be there, but the current situation is one of mutual misunderstanding rather than fundamental differences. There are people (leaders) who will not listen anymore, and make the same mistakes all over again. For many Europeans, not the US is the big satan, but Bush is. Maybe because we have had our portion of mindless nationalists some years ago, and we don’t want to go through this again. I’m not only talking about the Hitlers and the Stalins, but there are enough other leaders who made a mess of it just because they thought national pride is so important (De Gaulle, Tatcher, Franco, Breznjev …). It’s a pity nations have to be represented by their leaders, but that’s democracy. I’m sure many Americans don’t want to get the same image as Bush. Ie Bush is in contrast with the progressive Yankees who won the civil war.

We had enough discussions already on who’s right and wrong, this new thread will eventually end in a same way. I know generalising is wrong, but it makes everything a lot easier. Personally I think blaming one person (ie Bush) is not as bad as blaming a whole continent (Europe). Just my humble opinion.

RE: IDF/AF F-16 attack goes wrong

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-07-02 AT 02:07 PM (GMT)]Should I be shocked now and say?? God, how can this go wrong ?! I don’t care anymore who’s to blame, I only look at the casualties and by accident or by purpuse, it doesn’t matter if your brains are shot out of your head.