RE: a stupid question but are

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-07-02 AT 11:00 AM (GMT)]Well I don’t know that much about Italian arms, but I guess they are also rather expensive (especially in a European consortium).

There has always been the cliché that Italian cars are cheap and unreliable. Once it was like this, but now a Fiat is as reliable as a brand new Toyota or Renualt. That’s why I think the Italian defence industry is also a good choise if you want to buy weapons. And I wouldn’t wait too long before buying them, because within 20 years, there will only be joint-European projects, and thus making it less affordable for some countries.

Some thoughts of mine.

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-07-02 AT 10:07 AM (GMT)]”Unfortunately even democracies commit atrocities and abuses of human rights …”

I agree, a democracy doesn’t mean that you respect human rights. I don’t know why people mix them up so often. A has got the right to attack B because A is a democratic nation and B is not. Well, a war is never democratic, and democracy is no guarantee for peace. (Hitler was also elected).

“If you define a rogue state as one capable of flaunting international law in order to further it’s own interests. A state which commits human rights abuses and doesn’t answer to anyone for them, a state which has a dubious system for selecing governments. Then surely the US falls right into place.”

No, because a rogue state is something which is made up in Bush mind. A rogue state is a state which does not share the same interests as the USA. The USA – as the only nation capable of policing the world – will define who’s on the list of rogue states and who’s not. Saudi Arabia, a great democracy where the human rights are well respected (especially for gays and women), is not on it for example, because they are the ‘good guys’. 😡

“The US has probably been the leading advocate of prosecuting war crimes going back to the end of WWII. If it had been up to the Europeans, WWII criminals would not have had their day in court, just a speedy execution and we all know it.”

So why doesn’t the US threat the captured Taliban-warriors under the Geneva-convention? Why do they install courts specially meant to prosecute non-US residents on behalf of terrorism. Nurnberg was a very nice show, but everyone knew that the Nazi’s would be hanged. In fact, most nazi’s would have rather been shot at sight than having to go through this whole show.

“Finally, its interesting to note where this thread started – in an area of the world, in which governments have only barely begun to respect the most basic of human rights and freedoms of there own peoples.”

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“The more crap I hear off this board, the more fortunate I feel to live in the United States.”

You are right PII, we are also glad you live in the United States, far away from the rest of the world, which is infected by the ‘evil’-virus. Luckily the Yanks are not contamminated by it.

“The truth is that people are simply looking for a reson to knock the U.S. because we are the most successful country to date”

How do you expect people on this forum to take you serious? To most sucessful country to date? Well, what about the Roman Empire, China, India, the British Empirte. Ohh, forgot, the world only started back in 1776, after the declaration of independence.

Who are the real rogues

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-07-02 AT 09:06 AM (GMT)]$

RE: Laser Eye Surgery (Zap & F

I am also short sighted, but I don’t mind wearing glasses, in fact, i couldn’t do without them (I look a bit more intelligent :D). My doctor also said maybe I should undergo such a laser-surgery, but I will not do this until I start becoming blind :D.

RE: Euro nations

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-07-02 AT 08:27 AM (GMT)]The EU is undemocratic because it is still the council of ministers who get the last say and not the Parliament or the Commission. And maybe it’s not 100 % democratic, but having a president for whom only a minority voted, is that perhaps democratic.

Problem with the EU-institutions is that most people don’t vote for them, and therefor are not interrested in it. Belgium is the only country where you are forced to vote, and not only for the national parliaments but also for the EU.

I think you are underestimating Germany (or overestimating the UK :D). Germany may have a socialist-green gov’t, it is still very capitalistic. Do not forget that only 13 years ago, East-germany was still a very poor region, not all problems have been solved now, but at least the standard of living has raised. Capitalists only couldn’t have done this, neither could have socialists. It was them working together which made it possible for East-Germany to devellop. We all know what happened with the British capitalism after Tatcher. Maybe socialism wasn’t that evil after all :'(.

RE: Sociological question

Well, historically spoken Germany and the UK are no real enemies, they were both enemies of France (especially Germany). It’s time Germany stands up again, they are the ones who can lead Europe (economy ofcourse), not the UK or France (and certainly not Italy :D). All European economies are in good shape, but Germany alone produces 35 % of all Euro-coins and notes, which says a lot about the strenght of that nation. A EU without Germany would be like a pub without beer. Many EU-nations have benefitted from Germany the past 50 years (Ireland, Portugal, Greece which were still ‘backward’ when they joined the EU), including the UK and France. People forget very quickly, and that’s a pity, because Germany has been the sponsor for Europe the past 50 years. So Germans should not ashamed of who they are. Are the French ashamed of what they did in Algeria? Are the Yanks ashamed of what they’ve done to the black slaves in the 19th century? NO!

To quote Lenny in the Simpsons. “OK, the Germans have made some mistakes in the past. But that’s why pencils got erasers!”

RE: Kyoto Accord. Who has sign

Satan’s little friend? No, that’s the UK. US IS Satan 😀

Well, in theory all European countries have signed the document. But we still have to see what will happen with it.

RE: Euro nations

1. The Euro is not some idea which was founded by a bunch of utopists. It took more than 50 years to create it, so during that period, most gov’ts and nations knew what they could expect from it. Therefor the Euro is not something new, it dates from the 1955 Rome-treaty.

2. The Euro is a help for the European economy. We don’t need to spend extra money on transitions etc. The fact that the prices are not the same in the different memberstates can also be seen as an advantage. For example, it’s much cheaper for a Belgian to buy a car in Finland or Portugal. The dutch like to come to Belgium to buy groceries, but instead we like to cross borders to buy … uhmm … cheese 😀 (and some pot }>). It has been proven that European economy is much more stable when it is competitive. Europe exports more than it imports. The Euro can only make this easier, not only for Europeans but also for foreigners.

3. Britain will also join the Euro, maybe not this year, but not long after it. And so will Sweden and Denmark. Once Britain will have joined ‘Euroland’, many other non-EU nations will also use the Euro as an alternative for the dollar. Arab countries, (axis of evil), the maffia 😀

4. The Euro is here, and though some people want it to disappear, it won’t happen! It’s time to give up chauvenistic feelings and become realistic. Except Germany, the 14 other EU-economies are not strong enough to survive on their own. Joining the Euro does not mean you have to give up traditions: we don’t want to piss of the old folks who still believe in the fairy-tail of ‘monarchy’. Sooner or later, the Monarchs will also disappear, but we’ve got plenty of time, so let’s not worry about that and first focus on more important things.