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Geforce

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  • in reply to: EU-immigration policy #1993888
    Geforce
    Participant

    EU-immigration policy, Update

    Huddled masses: stay out

    Jun 21st 2002
    From The Economist Global Agenda

    Following a wave of support for far-right, xenophobic parties, immigration is top of the agenda at the Seville summit of European Union leaders on June 21st and 22nd. European leaders say they want harmonious EU action against illegal immigration. In reality, nearly all governments are still sticking to policies of their own
    AP

    EUROPE’S leaders have been given a jolt. Across the continent there is growing disquiet over a perceived rise in immigration, or at least in immigrant-related problems. This has manifested itself in rioting, as in the north of England, last summer, and in a surge of support for far-right political parties, including France’s National Front, the Freedom Party in Austria, the Pim Fortuyn List in the Netherlands, the Northern League in Italy and the Danish People’s Party. European leaders are worried that if they are not seen to act against illegal immigration, the far right will gain even more ground. Anxious to address this problem, the Spanish have put immigration top of the agenda for the EU summit in Seville later this week.

    There are four different aspects to the package on immigration that will be tackled by the leaders: managing borders; regulating legal immigration; combating illegal immigration and action against third countries from which illegal immigrants come, or through which they pass.

    The EU’s best guess is that the Union’s domains absorb 500,000 illegals every year. Although the popular image of these people is formed by television pictures of Iraqis and Afghans trying to hop aboard trains that go through the Chunnel to Britain, or of Albanians struggling to cross the Adriatic to Italy in rickety boats, most illegal immigrants in the EU enter legally and simply stay on when their visas run out. Despite some politicians’ steamy rhetoric, nobody really knows whether the flow of illegal immigrants is going up or down. It is known, however, that the number of refugees claiming political asylum in the Union has slowed sharply over the past decade. Last year 384,530 people claimed asylum, against 675,460 in 1992.

    For several years EU leaders have been promising a common policy for both illegal immigration and asylum seekers. Now that the Union (bar Britain, Ireland and Denmark) has scrapped passport controls for travelling within it, logic suggests that a common approach to controlling the EU’s external frontier should be forged. Having 15 different national regimes for asylum and naturalisation has also led to worries that illegal immigrants are “asylum shopping”, and to recriminations between neighbouring countries like Britain and France, and Denmark and Sweden.

    But while EU leaders love harmonisation in theory, in practice progress has been very sticky. A senior official at the European Commission, which has been trying to hammer out common policies, laments “a general unwillingness to change national systems whatever they may be.” Britain, for instance, lets asylum-seekers look for work six months after they have lodged their application; Germany makes them wait 12 months and France 18. Trying to find a common approach to family reunification has also proved fraught. Germany wants to prevent children older than 12 joining their parents; others see this as too tough. The Dutch want gays to be allowed to join their partners; the Spanish are dead against the idea. In theory, EU leaders also want a common time-frame for assessing asylum claims; in practice, many home ministers say they cannot give deadlines to judges.

    It is unlikely that putting illegal immigration at the top of the agenda in Seville will lead to a breakthrough. The summiteers will look for progress in two specific areas. First, they will ponder the idea of an EU border-police to replace national frontier controls. That will be deemed a step too far for now, so instead there will be moves towards exchanging information on visas and an emphasis on greater co-operation between frontier police. Second, the leaders may try to reach a compromise on an idea, championed by Britain and Spain, of trying to link foreign aid to countries’ willingness to take back refugees whose asylum applications have been rejected. This may generate the headlines that EU leaders want about “tough action”. But opposition from a number of EU countries means the reality will be messier, and will probably emphasise rewards for co-operation rather than punishments. No one will subordinate aid to the fight against illegal immigration.

    So a genuine harmonisation of asylum policies will have to wait for another day. Commission officials hope that in about six months they may secure agreement on family reunification. Establishing common procedures for processing applications and appeals is likely to take much longer. In any case, some officials reckon that even if a fully harmonised set of EU rules is eventually achieved, it would be unlikely to ensure that all EU countries share a proportionately equal burden of asylum-seekers. That is because the laxness or otherwise of national regimes is only one factor determining where asylum-seekers make their claims: family and cultural ties, work opportunities and language are just as important.

    Liberals within the commission and elsewhere are hoping that the Seville summit will not strike too punitive a tone. “We might get something into the 13th paragraph of the summit statement, acknowledging that EU countries actually need immigrants,” says one official wryly. But the argument that allowing more legal immigration is both the way to stem illegal immigration and to solve the problem of the EU’s ageing population is widely viewed as too simple. As the same official points out, “We know from America’s experience that allowing lots of legal immigration does not put a stop to illegal immigration.” EU studies have also suggested that immigration alone will not be enough to make Europe’s population younger.

    So in calling for the harmonisation of EU policies on illegal immigration, European leaders are engaging in a great deal of double-talk. The number of asylum-seekers does not bear out talk of a worsening crisis. And the actions of political leaders do not suggest a great desire to surrender control of national immigration in favour of a common EU approach.

    On the contrary. In the weeks before the Seville summit, several EU governments have taken unilateral measures to tighten up their own immigration regimes. Denmark has brought in a law cutting benefits to asylum-seekers and making it harder to bring in spouses or elderly relatives. Italy will soon have one that would make non EU-citizens be fingerprinted if they want to live in the country. Britain’s government has proposed educating the children of asylum-seekers outside the main school system. In Austria, immigrants will have to try harder to learn German. Other countries may well follow suit. EU governments can talk till they are blue in the face about a common approach. For now, unilateral action is still the order of the day.

    in reply to: General Discussion #431135
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: UN financing

    I know who’s feeding the North Korean people, and indeed, it’s thanks to South Korean, Japanese and American food programs these people still can survive. But that is our duty, as rich and industrialised nations you have no other choise than helping these people, and you can not ask all of them to be equally gratefull towards us. The case of Argentina is something totally different than North Korea were an evil despot rules the country.

    in reply to: UN financing #1993892
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: UN financing

    I know who’s feeding the North Korean people, and indeed, it’s thanks to South Korean, Japanese and American food programs these people still can survive. But that is our duty, as rich and industrialised nations you have no other choise than helping these people, and you can not ask all of them to be equally gratefull towards us. The case of Argentina is something totally different than North Korea were an evil despot rules the country.

    in reply to: General Discussion #431299
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: UN financing

    [updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-06-02 AT 12:39 PM (GMT)]>And then there’s countries like Argentina, blaming the US
    >via IMF on setting bunch of conditions that limits their
    >monetary sovereignty or else no loans. Have they no shame?
    >Didn’t almost the entire western world told them years ago
    >about their imminent collapse for their stupid economic
    >policy. They blame the US because the majority of the IMF
    >fund is from the US, but you’re borrowing money damned it.

    Actually it is Spain who has to be blamed rather the US. The biggest banks in Argentina are Spanish, so they probably controll most of the countries’ finances. These banks didn’t want to give loans either, in fact, they even refused to give money to people when they needed it. One has got to stay fair, and this crisis is NOT the fault of the US, but of their own corrupt government and greedy European and American banks. As I said, we EURO’s are not perfect (far away from it actually :D).

    in reply to: UN financing #1994043
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: UN financing

    [updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-06-02 AT 12:39 PM (GMT)]>And then there’s countries like Argentina, blaming the US
    >via IMF on setting bunch of conditions that limits their
    >monetary sovereignty or else no loans. Have they no shame?
    >Didn’t almost the entire western world told them years ago
    >about their imminent collapse for their stupid economic
    >policy. They blame the US because the majority of the IMF
    >fund is from the US, but you’re borrowing money damned it.

    Actually it is Spain who has to be blamed rather the US. The biggest banks in Argentina are Spanish, so they probably controll most of the countries’ finances. These banks didn’t want to give loans either, in fact, they even refused to give money to people when they needed it. One has got to stay fair, and this crisis is NOT the fault of the US, but of their own corrupt government and greedy European and American banks. As I said, we EURO’s are not perfect (far away from it actually :D).

    in reply to: General Discussion #431304
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Another PLO victory

    [updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-06-02 AT 12:29 PM (GMT)]>JJ,
    >
    >Thanks for the interesting reply, I appreciate it. If I
    >understand you correctly, the Jewish people were dispersed
    >across Europe (the diaspora) by the Roman Empire. Therefore
    >for the best part of 2,000 years there was no Jewish state.

    Some history on the Romans,

    The Romans didn’t lead to diaspora. In fact, they wanted to give the Jews their own state, keep their own culture … Romans were NO ANTI-SEMITES. However, they were imperialistic, and they did want to Jews to recognise the Romans as the conquerers (by obeying Roman gods). Most European tribes did this, and therefor, could still keep their own traditions … the Jews did not accept this deal and were seen by the Roman Emperor as dangerous freedom fighters … probably even terrorists (if there existed such thing back than). Romans were always seen as the first anti-semites but they were not, in fact, they were rather tolerant towards other religions, though they could find them backwards. The Jews were even allowed to punish their own criminals, although then did not had the right to kill them without the permission of the Roman governour.

    I want to give you the facts in Latin, anyone interested? 😀

    in reply to: Another PLO victory #1994051
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Another PLO victory

    [updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-06-02 AT 12:29 PM (GMT)]>JJ,
    >
    >Thanks for the interesting reply, I appreciate it. If I
    >understand you correctly, the Jewish people were dispersed
    >across Europe (the diaspora) by the Roman Empire. Therefore
    >for the best part of 2,000 years there was no Jewish state.

    Some history on the Romans,

    The Romans didn’t lead to diaspora. In fact, they wanted to give the Jews their own state, keep their own culture … Romans were NO ANTI-SEMITES. However, they were imperialistic, and they did want to Jews to recognise the Romans as the conquerers (by obeying Roman gods). Most European tribes did this, and therefor, could still keep their own traditions … the Jews did not accept this deal and were seen by the Roman Emperor as dangerous freedom fighters … probably even terrorists (if there existed such thing back than). Romans were always seen as the first anti-semites but they were not, in fact, they were rather tolerant towards other religions, though they could find them backwards. The Jews were even allowed to punish their own criminals, although then did not had the right to kill them without the permission of the Roman governour.

    I want to give you the facts in Latin, anyone interested? 😀

    in reply to: General Discussion #431307
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Did US Congress pass a law??

    I didn’t make headlines here, but it was mentioned in some quality newspapers however. But the majority of the ‘plebs’ here doesn’t know anything about it.

    in reply to: American Invation and Agression #1994054
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Did US Congress pass a law??

    I didn’t make headlines here, but it was mentioned in some quality newspapers however. But the majority of the ‘plebs’ here doesn’t know anything about it.

    in reply to: General Discussion #431369
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: American Invation and Agression

    “This is ridiculous. Some of you Euros are just so blinded by your “higher moral values”, or rather the values you think you have, which I must say are a joke because many of you are hypocrits.”

    Wrong, Euro’s are no hypocrits, as anyone will admit what we did wrong in Bosnia, Congo, Algeria. I hypocrit is somebody who ‘s judging others while at the same time doing it themself. As most European countries don’t have the “luxury” of having a huge military force, I can’t imagine what we could do ourselves, as you said yourself. We are cry-babies however, but that’s something totally different. :7
    It’s because we can’t match against the brave Americans, so we stay humble. The Americans, who are living under a constant danger … something us Europeans have never experienced … the past 50 years.

    If so, it seems you are one of the few in Europe that understands who the actual bad guys are here.

    “Yeah, and he’s becoming an endagered species here. :7

    I’m not going to take anything you say as serious. I mean you don’t take things I say as serious so it’s an eye for an eye (at least until you clarify). Are you a Russian?

    go ahead … you didn’t even read what the man said.

    in reply to: American Invation and Agression #1994141
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: American Invation and Agression

    “This is ridiculous. Some of you Euros are just so blinded by your “higher moral values”, or rather the values you think you have, which I must say are a joke because many of you are hypocrits.”

    Wrong, Euro’s are no hypocrits, as anyone will admit what we did wrong in Bosnia, Congo, Algeria. I hypocrit is somebody who ‘s judging others while at the same time doing it themself. As most European countries don’t have the “luxury” of having a huge military force, I can’t imagine what we could do ourselves, as you said yourself. We are cry-babies however, but that’s something totally different. :7
    It’s because we can’t match against the brave Americans, so we stay humble. The Americans, who are living under a constant danger … something us Europeans have never experienced … the past 50 years.

    If so, it seems you are one of the few in Europe that understands who the actual bad guys are here.

    “Yeah, and he’s becoming an endagered species here. :7

    I’m not going to take anything you say as serious. I mean you don’t take things I say as serious so it’s an eye for an eye (at least until you clarify). Are you a Russian?

    go ahead … you didn’t even read what the man said.

    in reply to: General Discussion #431372
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Arthur’s fine

    “I don’t consider the Europeans any better than the Americans – just look at the Belgians in Rwanda or Italians in Somalia. What i do like is that European countries or the EU don’t boast continuously about being the the good guys, fighting off evil and saving democracy.”

    Well said Arthur. This is exactly what I also meant.

    “It is obvious that Taiwan belongs to china, cause the people are chinese and they both speak chinese. So Austria belongs to germany and one half of Belgium to France and the other to the Netherlands.”

    It doesn’t belong to China, it’s just the same people, same language, but not the same culture anymore. Half of Belgium doesn’t belong to Holland or France, they are independent, but does that mean they can’t share same interrests, goals?
    If there would break out a war between Holland and France, you can bet half of Belgium will be on Holland’s side and the other on France. I didn’t even mention the small German-speaking population in the east (sorry Frank :7!), which we only got after WWII from Germany.

    in reply to: American Invation and Agression #1994145
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Arthur’s fine

    “I don’t consider the Europeans any better than the Americans – just look at the Belgians in Rwanda or Italians in Somalia. What i do like is that European countries or the EU don’t boast continuously about being the the good guys, fighting off evil and saving democracy.”

    Well said Arthur. This is exactly what I also meant.

    “It is obvious that Taiwan belongs to china, cause the people are chinese and they both speak chinese. So Austria belongs to germany and one half of Belgium to France and the other to the Netherlands.”

    It doesn’t belong to China, it’s just the same people, same language, but not the same culture anymore. Half of Belgium doesn’t belong to Holland or France, they are independent, but does that mean they can’t share same interrests, goals?
    If there would break out a war between Holland and France, you can bet half of Belgium will be on Holland’s side and the other on France. I didn’t even mention the small German-speaking population in the east (sorry Frank :7!), which we only got after WWII from Germany.

    in reply to: General Discussion #431377
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Finished

    Congratulations, Dutchy

    in reply to: Finished #1994154
    Geforce
    Participant

    RE: Finished

    Congratulations, Dutchy

Viewing 15 posts - 2,416 through 2,430 (of 2,805 total)