Black Spitfire

The Black Spit indeed underwent an overhaul at Sde Dov during the summer. The photo attached is dated June 17.

However, upon arrival at the museum it was grounded again. Apparently the staff were dissatisfied with the results, the least of which was mistakes in applying the livery, placing roundels in the wrong place and such. I’m not sure of it’s current status, but it might have gone to back to Sde Dov. There’s a possible sighting from late July.

More photos can also be found at http://idfmodelling.free.fr/spitfire.html . The last three are recent ones, taken at the museum shortly after the overhaul I believe.

The museum has both, you can catch a glimpse of the Venom behind the Vampire, it wears the colours of the Iraqi Air Force.

Dazza, I had a simliar problem a few weeks ago with a search engine that hijacked my default home page. It took me a week to get rid of it. Today’s hijackers are very persistant, very sophisticated and quite difficult to get rid of.

The good news is that you’re probably not alone in this matter. First of all, post your problem on the http://computing.net forums, you’ll not only meet people who’ve encountered it but also people who solved it.
Meanwhile, the links that have hijacked your favorites are most probably not random, and that’s a good start. Go to google, and search for something like “explorer” + “favorites” + “replaced” + two or three site names. You should find pages that help you out.
Hope this helps.

Err … how embarassing, senility seems to be creeping up on me. Not only have I seen the above pictures before, but I’ve actually seen the aircraft with my own two eyes (http://www.stormpages.com/skythe/mus2_rf4.htm ).

Some questions are still left unanswered. AFAIK the IDF/AF has never had a dedicated RF-4 unit, the various aircraft were dispersed among the regular Phantom squadrons. 107 certainly turns out to have operated RFs, but we know that 119 and 201 did as well. That’s why talk of a transition seems weird, the IDF/AF has never had that many RF-4s. How can we tell that 107 soldiered on as a recce unit after the regular F-4s were retired?

Originally posted by Arthur
Funnily enough, the other squadron to recieve the IF-16 is 107 Tayaset which is an already disbanded recce-Phantom unit from Hatzerim.

I don’t recall 107 ever being mentioned as a recce-Phantom unit, I’ve yet to see a recce Phantom wearing its badge. Besides, it hasn’t been around for ages. Where is this news coming from? I would have thought that with the upcoming retirement of the F-4s, 119 and 201 would be the natural candiates for the Sufas. I would very much like the IDF/AF to keep these two illustrious squadrons operational rather than bring 107 back from the dead.

Mad John Vane, I love it 😎

Every pirate is a little bit crazy. You, though, are more than just a little bit. You tend to blend into the background occaisionally, but that’s okay, because it’s much easier to sneak up on people and disembowel them that way. Arr!

Originally posted by plawolf
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looking at half the picture would not help u get to the truth. sure, the israeli resistance’s actions were examplary after the bombing of the king david, but that is mostly because of the nature of the ‘provocating’ acts by the british military at the time. what did the british do to ‘provoke’ that attack? did they regularly go on rades in which israeli children were killed? did they ‘target assasinate’ israels at will?

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You obviously expect me to come to the defence of the perpertrators of the King David bombing. I don’t intend to.
Don’t let that fool you into thinking that I share you high regard of British mandate rule, though. We could go off topic and discuss the issue, one in which the British have nothing to be proud of (a minor example would be why Operation “Agatha” is locally remembered as “Black Sabbath”), but I bear the British no ill will and would rather not.

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it is a good thing that few israelis have been killed in attacks lately, but that fact alone shows little. it would be more convincing if u could get stats showing the number of attempted attacks before and after to see if there has been a general fall in the effectiveness of attempted attacks, or just cos there isnt that many attempts lately.

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20 attempted suicide bombings since October 4th. Those are the numbers presented by the Shin Bet chief in the Knesset a few days ago. See this. Take a look at the last paragraphs, no apologies for our own scum.

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and it has never come to ur mind that purhaps it is not the palastinian authority that represents the will of the palastinian ppl at the moment?

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I could not care less. There was a point in time the Nazi party spoke for Germans. Doesn’t give it the slightest bit of legitimacy. Besides, the Palestinian Authority is recognized world over as the sole represetative of the Palestinian people. in Europe, in the Arab World, in the US and in the UN. It is not unreasonable to ask them to abide by the agreements they have signed. Either that or step down. Neither Israel, nor anyone else, has to sort out the various Palestinian factions and decide who this week’s representative is.

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it is unreasonable to expect israel alone to expect responsability and to resolve this problem. but there are also retional heads on the palastinain side, and they would start to play their part if israel just give them a little ‘ammunition’ to used against the radicals. yeilding nothing but demanding everything will not help them start to bring the palastinain side around.

it is also unreasonable to expect israel to give into the more radical demands of some militant organisations. however, it is not unreasonable, and even to be expected that irsael, and the IDF in particular, respect international norms and treat the palastinian ppl like human beings, instead of animals.

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You’re absolutely right, I do not disagree with the above. But there has to be a reciprocal effort. Without the Palestinians beginning to show the slightest effort, which to this point they haven’t, Israeli concessions will be short-lived. You repeatedly expect the addressing of Palestinian grievances. But those cannot come at the expense of Israeli interests, first and foremost our own safety. What’s the point in releasing prisoners, like the 300 released 3 month ago, if nothing is done to prevent them from resuming their old habits of shooting up motorists?

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sigh,the reason israel should try to address the grevences of the palastinian ppl is because it is the only sure way of stopping the attacks, once and for all, not because the suicide bombers have won.

and its not hard to all go get that point across to the palastinains and the world if a couragouse israeli leader would dare to go down that path. all israel needs to do is to respond agressively to attacks, but also start to give concessions to groups who make their demands through peaceful channels, and also start to reform its own behaviour (like addressing some of the points i make above) when and only when there is a lull in attacks. carry the pattern for a while and palastinains will start to get the messaege – resort to violence and u will suffer, but if u restrain urselves and make ur requests in a civilised manner, then u will have a good chance of getting ur grevences heard and resolved.
like all human beings, palastinians love life, and would not be so willing to lay down their lives if they see that there is another way of getting what they want. (there might be a few extremists, yes, but without popular support, they will not be able to do much on their own).

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Right, you mean like Rabin who signed the Oslo accords, who allowed the creation of a Palestinian Authority, a creation of a 45,000 strong armed police force, and all he got in return is repeated suicide bombings of Israeil buses? Rabin and later his successor Peres did not halt negotiations after each attack. No, they pleaded, begged with the Palestinian Authority to do something about the Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and all they got in return was the finger. Did you know, Plawolf, that after the assassination of Rabin in November 1994, Peres enjoyed such popularity that despite a in which year he could have held in office he opted for early elections in April 1995? He would have won, if not for three suicide bombers in March which killed 60 Israeli, and his support with them. It is a naive mistake to think that all it takes is just giving a little more, that this would be all it takes for peace to arrive. Your suggestions are nothing more than wishful thinking, a politically correct illusion that people will “see the light” if only they were given a chance. There is a name for that, it’s called appeasement. It doesn’t work.
Terrorism does not spring out of the ground, it is the work or rational calculating men, who decide to undertake in murder. There are a lot of desperate people on this planet, but most of those that kill themselves don’t do it with a whole host of others.
Your poor, pitiful suicide bomber does not wake up one day to find an explosive belt has suddenly sprouted out of the ground. It takes someone to assemble the bomb, someone to fund it, someone to recruit the bomber, someone to train him, someone to chose the target, someone to transport him across the border, and finally someone to grlorify him and set the stage for the next attack. None of these are so “desperate” to kill themselves, are they? These men have to be fought, there is no alternative, they will not disappear into thin air just because we will it.

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again, u r missing the point. Al-Qaida and Hizbullah has not disappeared because the governments they are targeting have not addressed the underlying grevences that would drive orginary men and wemon to the point where they would be willing to kill themselves just to get at u. other terriost organisations like the IRA have disappeared or been forced to the table because they no longer have enough die-hard supports they need, because the governments address the underlying problems and thus cut off the flow of fresh recruits that keep such organisations alive.

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Again, wishful thinking. Hizbullah is still around because it is unwilling to relinquish it’s power. Israel withdrew from South Lebanon nearly four years ago, and yet the Lebanese army has yet to deploy to South Lebanon because of the Hizbullah. What “underlying grievences” does it serve? The Shebba Farms? Don’t make me laugh, a meaningless piece of land one could cross in 5 minutes and which even the UN has certified Israel is currently under no obligation to turn over to Lebanon. Oh no, the Hizbullah wants to mold Lebanon the way it sees fit, and that’s why it’s still around.
Al-Qaida? They were set up to expel the Soviets from Afghanistan. They’re still around, the USSR isn’t. No, they did not disappear, they just chose a new cause. Now it’s “American Unilateralism” or “Arab Dictatorships” or “Imperialist Zionist Running Dogs”. Besides, is there anyone who would actually like to see the Al-Quida’s aspirations fulfilled? The fact that some would resort to “desperate” means does not make their cause legitimate, I could even argue the opposite. The Kamikaza were desperate too. Should the US the allies have stopped and begin thinking how to address Japanese grievances?
Allow me to return to pre-independece Israel. Do you know how the Irgun finally ceased to exist? Even with the declaration of Israeli independence and the formation of the IDF, the supposed addressing of its grievances, the Irgun refused to break up. Shortly later an Irgun weapons ship by the name of Altalena docked at the beach. In a show off between an IDF force (incidently led by Rabin) and the Irgun, the IDF sunk the ship, killing 19 people. All this was done while the Egyptian army was closing on Tel Aviv, and the IDF needed both the men and equipment. Thus came end of the Irgun. Thus Ben Gurion established a single force under a single command under a single government. The disarmament of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad are first and foremost in interest of any sane individual who wishes both the promotion of peace and the establishment of a free Palestinian society.

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what, u think the average palastinain suicide bomber is killing himself only because he was ‘brainwashed’ by a hamas leader into thinking that he will go to paradice with a hundred beautiful virgins? he/she is doing it because they have witnessed and/or suffered great injustice at the hands of jews (most likely settlers or the IDF), but with things the way they are, they just cant see anything being done to give them justice. and with human nature being what it is, the erge to get ‘even’ may be irresitable.

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Many people have suffered injustice. Very few of them kill themselves with a whole host of others. The fact that they find some urge “irresistable” means they should be locked up, that the entire infrastructure that allows they to carry out this sickness should be broken up. Yes, a way should be found to address legitimate grievances. This in no way means that Israel should accept a state whereby it’s citizens are deemed fair game.

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even if u only gave the palastinains a remote hope that their grevences will be addressed, then most will not be so quick to resort to suicide bombing.

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What is the basis for that assertion? In the 27 years prior to the Oslo Accords and formation of the Palestinian Authority there was not one single suicide bombing. These begun only when Israel withdrew from Palestinian regions, only when at the helm of the Israeli government stoodf people who were all about giving Palestinians hope, people like Rabin, Peres and Beilin. You are watching the world through rose-tainted glasses. Suicide bombings begun not because the Palestinians were suddenly deprived of hope. On the contrary – the Hamas begun its terror campaign to deny the possiblity or reconciliation, to prevent peace, not to further its cause! Terrorism grew not because hope diminished, but in order to deny it. Even if you do believe that Israel has to address Palestinian grievances, there is no alternative to actively taking these people on. None.

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Well, that’s the opinion of me and the basic facts, ignore skythe’s neo-nationalist drivel.

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Yes, you and Viper would get along just great. I see you already follow his lead by assuming to know what I think and then proceeding to insult me. As long as you don’t also accuse me of something I’ve never actually done, we could get along just fine. May I be so enlightened (as opposed to my usual drivel) as point out that the King David bombing was in 1946, not 1948?

Thanks Barak :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Icarus
Correct me if I’m wrong, but some years ago didn’t a Syrian UAV or manned aircraft penetrate Israeli airspace near Haifa and fly unopposed for some minutes before anyone did anything?

I don’t recall anything of the sort. You may be refering to an incident which took place in 1970. The Israeli defence minister (or perhaps the IDF/AF chief, though I think not) boasted that Israeli skies were impregnable. Within days, on January 29th 1970, a lone Syrian MiG-21 managed to infiltrate Israeli airspace and conduct a sonic boom over Haifa. The pilot was supposedly awarded a decoration by the Syrian government for the act. He was killed several months later in an encounter with the IDF/AF and received a state funeral.