(I was involved in the business side of Tornado’s early stages). Any Joint Venture is a marriage, and like that, success comes only by suppressing ME and building on US. Decision-making works by addressing, solely, the best interests of The Project. A400M/TP400 are not French, or Brit, or Spanish, but all of those things…and none. They are the new entity, new identity. As in a cohesive family, even the juniormost dog is integral.
Exactly.
The idea is EJ200 could be a replacement for F414, not an RM12 equivalent, so the frame of reference is future tense, i.e. Gripen NG.
Feel free to bash that concept, but don’t take it out on the straw-man. 😉
Ooops 😮
Is it envisaged that any of these MSNx test aircraft will eventually serve with Air Forces?
Yes.
Cheers
on a jet engine, its peripheral, try to understand how it works first, and after you’ll bring your headquarter and ILs stuffs!
Intel makes all his chips in asia, as most IT actually, it doesn’t mean Intel is chinese? or Chinese are able to design anything!
Wait a minute, are telling you me that Snecma is responsable for the High Pressure compressor (RR), the Intermediate Pressure Turbine (MTU) and the Low Pressure Turbine (ITP) of the TP400 D6? That the blisks (MTU) are French?
And that the overall responsability for the design/modelling (RR) of the engine is a Snecma job?
Well… Strangely enough, Snecma, Rolls Royce, MTU, etc, disagrees with you, and like Swerve
“I’ll take their word over yours”.
http://www.snecma.com/IMG/pdf/Brochure__EPI.pdf (page 1)
http://www.fzt.haw-hamburg.de/pers/Scholz/dglr/hh/text_2006_09_19_RAeS_A400M.pdf (page 7)
How much nationalistic nonsense can someone write?
ps- Its a Turboprop not a jet…
Wrong totally,
A400M had transall and C130 replacment in its roots!
The project began as the Future International Military Airlifter (FIMA) group, set up in 1982 by Aerospatiale, British Aerospace, Lockheed, and MBB to develop a replacement for the C-130 Hercules and Transall C-160. Varying requirements and the complications of international politics caused slow progress. In 1989 Lockheed left the grouping and went on to develop an upgraded Hercules, the C-130J Super Hercules. With the addition of Alenia and CASA the FIMA group became Euroflag.
As snecma for cost purposed M88 HPT, they left the idea and designed a new one!
cheerssssssss.
Wrong on what?! What have you wrote that proved anything?
Looks at Page 16, what’s spanish contribution to european defense and aerospace sheme!
http://extranet.asd-europe.org/Common/GetFile.asp?PortalSource=87&DocID=9801&mfd=off&pdoc=1
france is the second world defence and aerospace powerhouse, and mainly the leader in all european mains projects, expected the contreversal eurofighter, oopss!
as Snecma is the leader of the TP400 in building the core system, and taking leading managment of this project, not only 33%.
live with it,
The management of the TP400 D6 is responsability of EPI Europrop International with headquarters in Munich and the engineering, programme & operations, commercial and integrated logistic support (ILS) teams are based in… MADRID.
The overal technical integrator, responsable for the whole engine model/design is ROLLS ROYCE.
who cares about work share?
Airbus is a franco-german with tiny spanish parts, A400M was designed by Airbus, the leader of an engine building is the one who design the core, peripherals works doesn’t matter.. period!
The initial design for what would became the A400M was designed through the FLA team. And when it was handed down to AIRBUS, the design went straight to EADS SPAIN, who was made responsable for the entire project. The A400M owes more to the (mostly Spanish) team that designed the C-295 than to any French or German (ex) airframer EADS department.
And, stop with this “core” nonsense, the first (mostly) French offer for what would became the Europrop TP400, was indeed based on the M88, but thats history, the engine is a completely new design, the only thing of the “core” that Snecma is responsable is the combustor and the high pression turbine, and even then the Blisks are german, the rest of the “core”, the High Pression compressor is from Rolls Royce ,the intermediate pressure turbine, the intermediate pressure shaft and compressor are from MTU…
whatever where Boeing sub contractors are, design is Boeing on each aircrafts, as Airbus !
How old are you?!
Great to see this franco german acheivment taking ths skies!
Great thx to Snecma impressive technology combustor/hp turbine combo core driving it through the most powerfull and efficient west world aerojet engine, the tp400 d6 ..
😎
:rolleyes:
Right.
And EADS Spain (wich in the past was a certain CASA) had nothing to do with the design… And the wing was designed and produced in that Franco-German town called… Filton. Etc, etc, etc.
About time!
Add the entire list of nations that buy russian fighters or combination of russian and french fighters. Add to that the closet us-phobes or those who would “prefer” fighter without strings when a reliable option exists. And that does not take away the buyers who don’t mind american.
The ones most hurt by the competition from such fighter would be russian and french. Here you would have one western technology sporting fighter with long-life components that is closest to russian/chinese pricing. And the pricing is the main thing besides the lack of strings that beholds these potential buyers to their current choices.
For some savings on the engine cost, SAAB reduced much more in the potential list of customers or potential unit numbers(greater the planes with us engine- greater the dependence).
With variants fielding CFT and AESA we would have had a new ruler of the skies atleast numbers wise.
What are those countries who bought Russian/Chinese aircrafts that sudendly would have gone for a Gripen with an EJ200 engine? :confused:
Venezuela? India? “Something” in North Africa?! Yemen?!! Zimbabwe?!!! Iran?!!!!!
Part of those countries have specific reasons for buying Russian, others have a specific requirement that the Gripen doesnt cover (MKI, MKM, “29K”) and finally the rest are on the “weapons export” ban list of the Swedish Government.
And were are those Countries who have bought French gear that would have bought this Euro Gripen instead?!
In the time frame that an EJ200 Gripen offer would have been feasable, there were just two French fighter sales, the Dash-9 for the EAU and the Dash-5 mk2 for Greece. In both, this “Euro Gripen” would had the same chances that a snow storm would have to fall in Ouagadogou. 🙂
Cheers
EJ200 MK101 FOC??
the Pdf of RR was released in march 2009!
and says “89kN” way over 1% more or less, my Maths..
its very suprising when ppl are short of arguments they turns things “personal” ..
Oh, for christ sake. You came to this specific topic and start flaming left and right and when confronted with factual information you get touchy!
How many official documents from Eurojet, MTU, EUROFIGHTER GMBH, RAF, Esercito del Aire, Luftwaffe, AMI and even Roll Royce you want to be presented that clearly states a 90 KN for the standard EJ200 that is being delivered right now? Ten will be enough? Twenty?
Its not that hard to find them, but no, mr Squalls, AKA “Global Press” only likes one particular document… How intelectually honest mr Squalls…
I am not convinced that EJ engine would have made the difference in Brazil.
Politically it seems they decide to go for France…
AFAIK Brazil is actually using some US military equipment today, like e.g. the Orion maritime surveillance plane. If Brazil can accept that, why not a US engine (which I believe also Volvo has some IP in, although it’s probably minor compared to the total.)
Were do i sign?
I dont believe that the EJ engine would make much of a diference either, i just think that the present Brasilian govermnent doesnt want to be linked with high profile defence deals with the USA, the kind of deals that appear in the press. Small deals? No problemo…
Brasil armed forces just bought Mk48 torpedos, Blackhawks and severall other military hardware from the USA.
The problem here is political, and with the Brasilian Government, not with Brasil “per se”.
Those who don’t mind american components can always buy newer versions of F-16 or other american fighters anyways.
Those who want to be sovereign, they need reliable, non-american options which do not come for premium Eau-de-parfum european pricing. A gripen with EJ200 would have come as a relief to sovereign states whose current options are generally low-cost but maintenance-heavy russkie options or off-late chinese options.Affordable, reliable and without the strings will always be in demand. The whole world isn’t moving to 5th gen anytime soon.
Take Brasil out of the equation and SAAB would be hard pressed to find someone that has issues with the US Congress/ITAR/FMS/etc, with enough money to buy a couple of Gripen sqns and that the Swedish goverment wouldnt veto because of political “problems”.
Believe me, the EJ proposal was seriously considered by SAAB.
Cheers
Those are the kind of news that in the “bad” old times would send an entire design team into a touristic trip to Siberia. If they were lucky!
It seems that the Russian Navy is between a rock and a hard place, four (very) expensive hulls being constructed wich is main armament is a system with a habit of not working.