SintraAnd if someone wants range, eight years ago, in the AIR6000 competition (Australia) BAE was offering CFT´s for the dam plane.
4800 km´s ferry range…
Let´s wait a few more months, but Industry has offered (again) the CFT´s for the Tranche 3, and at least the RAF was interested (if they have the money that´s quite another story).
Cheers
SintraSatorian
Nice one and Kudos for a job well done.
There are 82 main suppliers for the Eurofighter program.
Eurofighter Typhoon
Twin turbofan tailless delta wing multi mission fighter.
Manufacturer
Eurofighter GmbH
Materials / Composites
BAE Systems plc
Subcontracted Composite Parts: Carbon fibre composite components & skins
Hexcel Composites USA
Carbon Fibre: Carbon fibers, structural adhesives, honeycombs, prepregs, sandwich panels and reinforcement fabrics
Kongsberg Defense & Aerospace AS
Subcontracted Composite Parts: Load carrying composites structures
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Materials / Non-metal Materials
PRC-DeSoto International Inc.
Fluoroelastomer Sealants: Sealant caps
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Components / Active Electronic Components
Excalibur Systems, Inc USA
Printed Circuit Boards: EXC-3900 interface board for avionics test and simulation applications
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Components / Actuation
C.E.S.A
Hydraulic Actuators: Foreplane actuator, landing gear door actuators; EJ200 engine VIGV master & slave actuators & nozzle actuators
Liebherr-Aerospace Lindenberg GmbH
Electromechanical Actuators: Primary flight control actuation
Microtecnica
Mechanical Actuators: Flap/slat actuation and control system
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Components / Electrical/Electronic Connectors
PEI-Genesis
Electrical & Electronic Connectors: JN1003 multi-pin circular connectors
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Components / Fasteners
Avibank Mfg. Inc.
Pins, bolts, fasteners & accessories
Ho-Ho-Kus, Inc.
Clamps and fasteners, nuts, bolts & screws
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Components / Lighting
Lighting Systems, Goodrich Interiors (DE)
Aircraft Exterior Lighting Systems: Dual colour strobe lights, landing/taxi lights, LED navigation lights, power supplies & cables
Lighting Systems, Goodrich Interiors (USA)
Aircraft Exterior Lighting Systems: Anti-collision lights
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Components / Mechanical Components
Eaton Aerospace Phelps Valve
Pumps, valves, level sensors, pressure switches, refuel/defuel manifolds, and couplings
M&I Materials Ltd
Counterweights: Tungsten alloy parts including trim weights for the canard foreplane, ballast adjustment in the cockpit and centre of gravity positioning.
Senior Aerospace – Bird Bellows
Manifolds & Ducts: Fuel ducts
Stratoflex Products Div.
Disconnects: Hydraulic ground service quick disconnects
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Components / Mechanical Connectors
KEC Limited
Connector Protection Accessories: EMC backshells for standard circular, rectangular and ‘D’ type connectors, bulkhead glands and fittings, cable harnesses and conduit systems
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Components / Non-Mechanical Components
Device Technologies Inc.
Plastic Grommets: Spring-Fast wire protection composite grommet edging
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Components / Sensors, Transducers & Detectors
Goodrich Sensors & Integrated Systems
Sensors/Transducers: Pitot probe; ice detectors; air data total air temperature sensors
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Components / Structural Components
BAE Systems plc
Aircraft Structural Components: Centre fuse frames, wing-to-fuselage brackets, fore planes
Premium AEROTEC GmbH
Aircraft Structural Components: Aluminium fuselage ribs
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Components / Valves
C.E.S.A
Valves: Flapper check valves
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Airframe Systems / Airframe Assemblies
Alenia Aeronautica SpA
Wings: Left wing; wing pylons; Fuselage Sections: Rear fuselage
BAE Systems plc
Fuselage Sections: Front fuselage including windshield & canopy; Stage 1 rear fuselage (for Alenia); Aircraft Control Surfaces: Fin & rudder
EADS CASA
Aircraft Control Surfaces: Flight control surfaces
EADS Military Air Systems
Fuselage Sections: Centre fuselage section; Wings: Right wing; Aircraft Control Surfaces: Flight control system
Liebherr-Aerospace Lindenberg GmbH
Fly-by-Wire Systems: Fly-by-wire flight control systems
Premium AEROTEC GmbH
Fuselage Sections: Fuselage midsections
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Airframe Systems / Cabin Interiors
Lighting Systems, Goodrich Interiors (USA)
Cabin Signage & Displays: Indicator & exit signs
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Airframe Systems / Crew Seating
Martin Baker Aircraft
Ejector Seats: Mk16A ejection seat
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Airframe Systems / Fluid Power
C.E.S.A
Reservoirs: Coolanol reservoir for radar cooling system
Lee Products Ltd.
Hydraulic Equipment: Fluid control components
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Airframe Systems / Landing Assemblies
C.E.S.A
Aircraft Landing Gear: Nose wheel, torque tube, arrestor hook, main landing gear retraction unit
Dunlop Aircraft Tyres
Tyres:
Liebherr-Aerospace Lindenberg GmbH
Aircraft Landing Gear: Nose landing gear system
Messier-Dowty
Aircraft Landing Gear: Main landing gear & nose landing gear
Airframe Systems / Weapons Systems
Aerea S.p.A.
Stores Management Systems: Electro-mechanical control systems for external stores
Galileo Avionica SpA
Infrared Target Designators: PIRATE (Passive Infra-Red Airborne Tracking System); Surveillance/Air Defense Radar: CAPTOR multimode radar
General Dynamics UK
Command, Control & Intelligence Systems: Armament control system; Weapons Countermeasures: Decoy dispenser I/F unit
MBDA UK
Missiles: Sotromshadow/Scalp conventionally armed stand off air-to-ground long range missile; Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM)
Raytheon Company Missile Systems
Missiles: AMRAAM missiles; Bombs: Paveway IV weapon system
Thales Optronics (Bury St Edmunds) Limited
Infrared Target Designators: PIRATE passive infra-red airborne target tracking system
Ultra Electronics Precision Air Systems
Ordnance Handling Equipment: HiPPAG airborne compressor for missile infared seeker cooling & munitions ejection
Ultra Electronics Sonar & Communication Systems
Laser Targeting Systems: Litening laser targeting pods
Avionics / Communications (Airborne)
General Dynamics UK
Radio Communications Equipment: Communication audio management unit
Rohde & Schwarz International GmbH
Transceivers: VHF/UHF airborne transceivers for secure voice and data transmission
Avionics / Flight and Data Management
EADS Defence & Security Division
Onboard Computers: Electronic core components
General Dynamics UK
Onboard Computers: Attack & navigation computer
Moog Controls (UK)
Automatic Flight Control Systems: Primary flight controls
Avionics / Indicators and Instruments
Nord-Micro AG & Co. OHG
Air Data Computers: Air data computers and air inlet controls
Avionics / Warning Systems
Lighting Systems, Goodrich Interiors (DE)
Acoustic Horns: Warning horn
Power Systems / Electrical Power Systems
Alenia Aeronautica SpA
Airborne Electrical Power Supplies: Secondary power generation
Crane Aerospace & Electronics
Airborne Electrical Power Supplies: Power management & distribution systems and auto-transformer rectifier units
Martek Power Abbott, Inc.
Power Conversion Equipment: DC/DC power converters
Tekdata Interconnections Ltd
Cable Assemblies: Loom assemblies
Power Systems / Engine Components
Aerotech Herman Nelson, Inc.
Engine Preheaters: Portable heaters
Goodrich Engine Control Systems
Engine Controls: Engine control system
ITP – Industria de Turbo Propulsores, S.A.
Engine Housings: Design & manufacture of front jet pipe casing, turbine exit case, Con-Di nozzle, external dressings for EJ200 engines
Microturbo S.A.
Air Start Systems: Starting systems for EJ200 engine and microturbo designs
Power Systems / Engines
Eurojet Turbo GmbH
Turbofan Engines: EJ200 engines
Power Systems / Fuel Systems
BAE Systems plc
Fuel Tanks & Systems: Centre fuse spine fuel tank
Eaton Aerospace Ltd (FR-Hitemp)
Fuel Pumps: Fuel pumps & valves
GE Aviation Systems Mechanical (Corona)
Fuel Tanks & Systems: Supersonic fuel tank
Goodrich Turbine Fuel Technologies
Fuel Nozzles:
Power Systems / Power Transmission
Goodrich Power Transmissions Systems
Shafts & Shaft Assemblies: Power take off shaft
Production / Handling Equipment
Didsbury Engineering Co. Ltd.
Hoists: Portable hoists
Production / Machining
M. Torres Disenos Industriales S.A.
Milling: Milling systems with flexible tooling
Production / Manufacturing Services
BAE Systems plc
Final Assembly: Final assembly of UK aircraft
EADS Military Air Systems
Final Assembly: Final assembly of German & Spanish aircraft
Production / Production Equipment
LASELEC SA
Marking Equipment: Cable & wire laser marking equipment
Production / Tooling
M. Torres Disenos Industriales S.A.
Laser Tooling: Laser scribers with flexible tooling; Jigs & Fixtures: Assembly jigs
Testing / Aircraft Operations
Intercomp Co.
Scales: Wireless weighing system for flight test system
Testing / Test Equipment
Moog FCS
Test Equipment: Electro-mechanical and hydro-mechanical control systems
SintraIf Saab wants to seriously try and compete with the JSF in some of these cases, why are they going with the Gripen NG and not the stealthified Gripen? I thought the Gripen NG was the one that flew recently with the relocated main gear and whatnot?
SOC
In one single word… Money.
The concepts that SAAB (and every single aerospace industry power house) has been studying for the last decade needs money, a lot of it, and without a signed contract those concepts dont get out of the CATIA workstation into real life.
And the Swedish Government doesnt see an external threat for the foreseable future.
Cheers
SintraLook at the time between WWII and now and plot the amount of time succeeding generations of aircraft types remain in service. 50 years doesn’t sound unreasonable. How many years was the F-100 in production? The F-4? The F-15? See what I mean? Hell, the F-15 has been in production for 37 years and they’re still building them.
I am more than aware of the life cycle of the latest generations of combat aircraft. And i had that in mind.
The F35A has one single real advantage over the previous generation, a very small RCS based on form, the rest (avionics) can be retrofited.
In 50 years from now that advantage has “gone to the dogs” for a long, long, long time (decades).
SintraThe F-35’s RCS is considerably smaller than 1/8th that of an F-16(1m^2 vs. .001m^2).
I am more than aware of that… Albeit i would be extremely cautious when claiming RCS numbers…
And having got recently a very, very, very, very faint ideia of what a certain tier1 partner his doing on the “counter stealth” department and to what programs that investigation his aimed, i am quite sure that at least a certain Glen Thorpy would have some doubts on this LM claim.
Cheers
SintraAnd you honestly think the Gripen in any varient is going to be good for the next 50 years? :rolleyes:
In 50 years, it will be completely irrelevant if it´s a Gripen or a F-35A…
SintraCheaper products generally are cheaper in quality too so its of no suprise. Why this needed a commision to figure out is beyond me.
“Cheaper quality”?!
Way smaller, less range/payload, with a bigger RCS, yep, that´s the Gripen… But “Cheaper” has in “cheap”?!
In the aviation world there are two words that dont combine “SAAB” and “cheap”. The construction quality of SAAB produts his breathtaking, and i dont mean cars.
Cheers
SintraHigh Flight
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of—wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air….
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark nor even eagle flew—
And, while with silent lifting mind I’ve trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
Rest in Peace
SintraLooking at a basic scenario, assuming no off-board support (which is unrealistic, but serves the purpose of the discussion). A BARS radar equipped Sukhoi can detect an F-16 sized fighter at 140k’s (for arguments sake. It might be somewhat more or less).
An F-35 however has a radar cross section, approximately 1/8th of an F-16.
Your Sukhoi then won’t be able to detect the F-35 until it gets within 17.5k’s or so. The AIM-120D however has a 100k range and a shot at even 40k’s means the Sukhoi will be right in the “sweet spot” of the AMRAAM’s capability and the Sukhoi pilot will have no idea of any threat until the AMRAAM’s radar goes active…
Jason
The RCS equations dont work in multiples of ten.
If the Flanker detects a Viper at 140 km´s, and if the Lightning II “has an radar cross section, approximately 1/8th of an F-16”, your BARS will be picking the F-35A at (roughly, top of my head, without a calculator at hand) 100 km´s away.
SintraPersonally i am more in anticipation to see What MiG will produce in terms of design.
Nothing… 🙁
SintraOk forget that Read the post in this very own thread referring to the Rafale. It is 100% French according to Dassault. It don’t need U.S appeal. Let me post it again for you are a bit lazy.
See the contents flex pointed out in the Typhoon, There is not as much in the Rafale . Tell me this why does the typhoon need U.S approval while the Rafale do not. Swerve you are arguing baselessly saying Rafale has as much American content :(.
The Rafale needs has much permission of the EUA has the Typhoon, basically none (unless Boeing wants to deliver the SH to the Aussies without the MIDS).
The critical components has already been pointed out are the MIDS LVT and the GPS navigation suite. Both the Eurocanards use the MIDS and both use the GPS Constelation.
But the the other way around his also true, American exports of the MIDS LVT can also be blocked by the European countries that invested in the project. One of those countries his France, the others are Italy, Spain and Germany.
Why do you think that those stories about the EUA blocking Typhoon sales were stoped “dead cold”?
One of the reason´s was that it was quite clear to the likes of LM and Boeing that if they want to export their own products there are a boat load of English, German, etc, stuff in their own fighters, ships, helicopters, etc, that in many cases are sensitive and could get “export restrictions” has a pay back.
From engines, to electronics, to composites, to canopies, etc, etc. Starting with the F22 RAPTOR, passing on the LCS and ending on almost every single bit of military equipment.
About flex´s post.
Taking out the MIDS, the rest his COTS, and the RAFALE has also a lot of foreign COTS (and that includes American and British).
From Power PC CPU´s, to carbom fibre, composites (Hexcel Composites, American), to pins, bolts (Avibank Mfg. Inc), valves, pressure switches (Eaton Aerospace Phelps), pression sensors (Goodrich Sensors & Integrated Systems), the ejector seat (Martin Baker Aircraft), the cabin pressure control systems (Liebherr-Aerospace Lindenberg GmbH), etc, etc, etc…
Has you see there are a lot of foreign content in the RAFALE.
Right now the great American “export item” control over the Eurofighter it´s not inside the aircraft, it´s the AIM120.
And Lewis Pagent his not the most well informed person about the Eurofighter program in the Internet, quite the oposite…
SintraSeriously man you have some problem with the community or what. There is no MUSLIM THREAT. Islamic terrorism is the threat. Both are different, saying otherwise is insulting to good muslims worldwide.
Nice to see that we actually agree on something.
Cheers
SintraTo
Sintra and others…who disputed an earlier dti claim that MIG 35 AESA radar has a range of 300 Kms
DTI again claims that the detection range of MIG 35-AESA radar is near 300 kms
250-280 for a fully populated array. 140 km for the current working array.
Page 33 dti Ferbuary 2009
http://www.zinio.com/express3?issue=368748439
Also to notice that in the same issue. The ACM of the IAF, Fali H Major states this – ‘When we start evaluations, the aircraft should have what we asked for’ – note at the start of evaluations not when the stuff is delivered. This for me will rule out Gripen NG and Eurofighter as AESA is one of the stated requirements and neither have one ready at the time of evaluation. In short it points in the direction of the American Jets and Rafale.
Ante
Thanks for the link. That´s a bold claim, i would touch it with a stick, but DTI it is indeed a good source (a very fine one).
Cheers
SintraI understand Global reasoning.
UMS is a 50/50 partnership between Thales and EADS and EADS is 50% French.
=> UMS is 75% French 🙂
On another hand Airbus is French according to the Americans when they want to disparage the Tanker deal given to Airbus (see Global’s links), but to me it’s more and more German in fact, since the A380 and A400M f*ckups 😀
…and it re-become French when the news that Airbus has delivered 483 planes in 2008 vs 375 for Boeing fall 😉
Better to laugh about all this…
I also did understand him, but UMS was formed in 1996, and 50% of the shares were owned by what was then called DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) … And those shares are still firmly in German hands. That´s why you find “EADS Deutschland GmbH” in every UMS document.
Cheers
SintraThe strings were similar. The Western allies only had a bit wider inventory to choose from (French, British, American, Italian) but they had no possibility to order and introduce Russian aircraft (and probably no interest, as well)
I was talking about orders, not deliveries. Indian MiG-29s were ordered in 1984, Czechoslovak ones in 1988 or 1987.
WHAT?
Not by a long shot, the WP countries were in everything but the name protectorates of the former Soviet Union.
Now try to compare that with the European Democracies, or with Canada…
Look at the relations of France with the United States for the last six decades, and you´l get the point.
By a lot less there was Prague…
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