Prop StrikeThis advice from the Moth Club is not precise on figures, but might be of interest.
https://www.dhmothclub.co.uk/mothenomics/
Prop StrikeI suspect that a lot of owners don’t particularly choose to know their hourly rate, and that is not actually a flippant comment.
They own the thing, presumably like it, almost inevitably fly fewer hours per year than they thought they would, and of course a bad spell, with the need for new parts or fabric overhaul, can send the cost ‘per hour’ sky high, £300 per hour or maybe more, which in a rational analysis becomes quite hard to justify. Easier not to crunch the numbers too hard, and just put it down as a bad year.
Personally, I think shared ownership makes much more sense, as the aeroplane is ALWAYS under-utilised. I was in a group with no capital up front, just a monthly fee and fly it for fuel. It was great while it lasted !
On a broader perspective, I do wonder where the new blood will come from to own and operate Tigers. They are such hard work- to move, to pre-flight, to start, to manoeuvre on the ground, added to which you get freezing cold, vibrated half to death and deafened, and all the time it is trying to go sideways and have a crash ! I should know, having crawled out from under an inverted one! I am on a the committee of a Historic flying organisation, and I remember scanning the room once and realising nearly everyone there had had an accident ( of varying severity) with a Tiger Moth!
But there are the good days, the calm evenings, flying in shirtsleeves, the wind in the wires, touching down like a feather on a sun-baked grass field. And you need those good memories to keep you going through the horrible days, when the rain hits your face like little bites, and your hands are so cold you can barely feel the throttle or the stick.
But they are great to see, and a major part of our flying heritage. If someone else is paying for keeping them flying, so much the better !
Prop StrikeThese are the current costs of a Tiger Moth Group known to me, in the S.E.
Pilots with previous Tiger Moth experience are preferred.
Operating costs are £85 per month (hangarge and insurance etc ) plus £168/hr (wet).
Share price £6,500
For your own aircraft you could fly it just for fuel ( £70 per hour ?? ) but you will pick up ALL the fixed costs so hourly rate will be high. Most Moths seem do about 25 hours ( or less ) per year in sole ownership.
Say £2,000 hangarage, £1,300 insurance, £1,000 permit fees, inspection, general maintenance ( coud be much more)
Add your fuel cost and you are looking at maybe £230 per hour for your 25 hours.
Cambridge Flying Group are charging £247 per hour to hire, which is probably cheaper than sole ownership, plus you dont have to spend £70,000 !
Prop StrikeIrresponsible and stupid. Who will they sue when they cut themselves on a sharp edge, or touch a toxic fluid?
Reminds me of the time I stumbled across an old forgotten Palace at the bottom of The Mall in London…
Prop StrikeProp StrikeThis viewpoint close to impact is truly shocking, and three civilians have been seriously burned.
It is sobering for those of us who have loitered in field near by display flying events thinking that we could maybe take cover if things looked as though they were getting out of shape. No way !
An awful awful event, and this really did not need to happen.
Prop StrikeT-28 Trojan crash, Börgönd Hungary – YouTube
Sickening to see, but this is gross pilot error, yet another pilot getting a rush of blood to the head, and showing off beyond capability. It is very rash to slow roll at 200 feet, and there was no hard push while inverted to check descent.
He could have ended a fast pass with a 40 degree pitch up, and a sharp aileron roll, which would have been fine, and he would not have killed his passenger. The RAF memorial flight ( BBMF) have not lost an airframe or pilot in a handling accident in six decades, and have a strict ( but safe) display regime which is a good template for safe operation, and certainly forbids slow rolls, and the fighters will only perform aileron rolls on a firm upward vector having established a gateway speed for the figure.
Low level rolls are a killer, and the average pilot is not competent to attempt them, not that there is any point anyway. There has been a culture change in the last few decades, and the professional display scene is much better now, but the real hazard seems to be the entry level ‘nearly-warbirds’, just about affordable for recreational amateur pilots, probably without a DA ( Display Authorisation) , and so still Harvards, Yaks, T34s , T28 and others continue to roll into the ground. YouTube has numerous examples, and it would be too depressing to line them all up.
It has been a problem for so long. This video from 1959 shows a pilot effectively commiting suicide trying to roll a Prentice ( about as agile as a Routemanster bus ! ) at maybe 100 feet with just the same result as the T28. At least he did not take anyone with him.
These are entirely avoidable Human Factors accidents, to do with too little understanding, too much adrenalin, and too much ego.
Prop StrikeHurricane just now, low down heading east into the haze , on the northern boundary of the Heathrow Zone.
At a guess, White Waltham to DX.
Prop StrikeThis Hurricane is doing very well, and the facebook contributions in the Hawker Hurricane Aircraft and Cockpit Projects group by Julian Mitchell suggests that he is the owner. I am not certain of the final intended status of the completed project.
This is his photo, and as he has put it in the public domain, I hope he will not mind keen followers of the project seeing the excellent progress which he has made.
Prop StrikeJ.B, I quite understand your cool feelings towards Gryder, and it is disappointing to hear he resorted to personal comments, though I am not suprised. I think he has created a persona as someone with robust views, and backing down, or revising his views is not much in the mix. I suspects he receives a lot of ‘pushback’ on his opinions, and has developed a pretty aggressive responce to perceived criticism.
And yet- I still think on balance he is doing a good job, and I believe he is absolutely sincere in his quest to reduce GA fatalities, and probably is making a difference. He is right more than he is wrong, I think, and his take on the Florida Avenger ditching , for instance, went a lot further than the NTSB would likely have gone, and highlighted lot more lessons to be extracted from the incident.
If he can help persuade pilots not to turn back after engine failure and stall/ spin out of a slow turn, he will half the fatality rate, and for that I guess it is worth being ‘on his side’.
Prop StrikeYou Tube aviation accident commentator Dan Gryder has touched on this incident, with some degree of knowledge, having checked out John Sessions on the DC-3 some time ago.
This is the second brake failure on landing which JS has reported, the previous being the Rapide crash which injured some passengers and in which he lost half of his leg. It is Gryder’s supposition that an artificial foot was part of the Spitfire accident sequence.
Dan Gryder fronts a high profile channel Probable Cause, and is known for his rapid summaries ( within days) of aircraft accidents. and their causes. He has a great many followers, and inevitably, others who don’t so much appreciate his quick-fire approach.
See at 20.20 his take on the Spitfire accident
Prop StrikeBig red Twin Otter of the British Antarctic Survey chugging over Chorleywood at top of Heathrow Zone, heading west, 3 mins ago.
Prop StrikeProp StrikeIt will be flying to Conningsby today, I think
”Some Club members may have seen in the aviation press and social media that the only flying example of a reproduction Messerschmitt Me 262 in Europe will be visiting the UK, principally to attend the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) which takes place at Fairford from 14-16th July. This announcement has created considerable interest as this will be the first time that a Me 262 has flown in this country since captured German aircraft were exhibited immediately after the Second World War. Even more exciting is the news that the Me 262 will be visiting the BBMF at RAF Coningsby after the RIAT show and will be available to view on BBMF hangar tours on 18th July.”
Messerschmitt Me 262 jet at the BBMF | RAF Memorial Flight Club
Prop StrikeI was wondering as well – time was when the forum would be heaving with comments and photos from ‘warbird central’
The UKAR forum has some observations, including this from pb643.
”Just home. Literally zero traffic in at around 10am, to the extent that when we ended up in the car park that had access restricted during flying, we were helpfully given directions to the other car park, being waved through all the road closed signs along the way.
Ground layout was not the best, with spectating split between two areas, with relatively limited access between the two. Ground entertainment was very limited, a small group of traders clustered together, a couple of areas of food stalls and a stage for the singers. Unfortunately, nothing compared with a world class aviation museum. The flight line walk was included, pleasant, but without the atmosphere of Duxford. Possibly two aircraft movements all morning.
The flying display followed a similar format to Legends of previous years. The curved display line and the unrestricted airspace makes you realise how restricted displays like the P38 and Bearcat are at Duxford. To me the displays felt much closer than most other shows, probably only comparable with Old Warden. A few types missing from the published program, two Mustang, Classic formation, a Hurricane, Corsair and most notably the Tempest. According to Richard Grace, held up slightly by the CAA being cautious at allowing a new type on to the register. The Gladiator didn’t fly due to the wind, two Mustangs didn’t fly, but I am unclear why.
The commentators Richard Grace and James Holland plus others were excellent.
So all in all it went from poor first impressions of driving onto an old airfield/industrial estate, compared with the excitement of arriving at a buzzing Duxford. By the end of the afternoon I am a convert, fabulous afternoon, brilliant flying display. Lots of room for improvement with ground entertainment, though that will clearly never compare with Duxford. Blessed by it being dry, there were very few shelters.
My only concern is that the event meets the financial expectations that allow it to return next year. The crowd was unsurprisingly not large.
Sorry, the Wildcat also didn’t fly, no reason heard.”
The feedback seems generally positive, though maybe lacking in some atmosphere. After all, how could it compare with DX? Of course, having the event fall on the worst weather weekend of the summer put a spanner in the works, and some of the overly gloomy forecasts would have you belive no flying would be possible.
Hopefully, it was not a loss -making enterprise, and the incentive remains to run it in 2024. People reported that the flying seemed closer, like Old Warden, even. The north of the country is something of an airshow desert these days, and that situation should be reversed. However, the traditional home of Legends is Duxford of course, and somehow, only there does it feel quite complete.
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