Icare9NG294 had the squadron code CH-Y. There looks to be a suggestion of a curve as part of the “C”, so that may help locate it on the fuselage, if it is a code letter.
Icare9As you have the serial, I assume you already have this information from Chorleys Lost Bombers website, but others may like a bit more info here:
Serial range NF906 – NG503 This aircraft was one of 400 Lancaster Mk.1s ordered from Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft (Baginton) and delivered from Jul 44 to Feb 45 mainly with Merlin 24 engines from Baginton and Bitteswell. NG294 was delivered to 625 Sqdn 15 Nov 44 Lost on its first Key Operation with a total of 14 hours. Airborne 1442 15 Dec 44 from Kelstern. All are buried in Rheinberg War cemetery.
P/O J.Fletcher KIA
Sgt S.Goodier KIA
Sgt L.J.Hart KIA
Sgt D.R.Jones KIA
Sgt J.H.Smith KIA
Sgt P.Banks KIA
Sgt I.R.Clapton KIA
Icare9Google Earth co ordinates are 51 41 24 84 N and 0.09.42.51 W
Icare9Foxhole Hill is just north east of Junction 24 on the M25
See: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=525266&y=201780&z=120&sv=Potters+Bar&st=3&tl=Map+of+Potters+Bar+Station,+Hertfordshire+%5BStation%5D&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf
Trust that helps, but that close to M25 doubt if anything remains now!!
Icare9Having grown up with the noise of Bristol Freighters from living under Southend approach, you may also need to incorporate a TV signal jammer! They were one of the noisiest aircraft ever and you could hear them before you could see them. They would skim the TV areials and you could tell how near they were by the rate at which the screen would roll.
I only recall a natural metal and medium blue livery for BUAF and Channel Air Bridge had predominantly medium green with white fuselage top.
Never happier than when the Carvair replaced them. One of the ugliest designs ever. The designer must have conceived it a wartime glider and simply built it in metal and added engines.
I’m sure your model will be quieter!
Icare9Aren’t we getting into the realm of “Triggers’ broom” here?
In “active service” many aircraft were repaired after crash landings, battle damage etc. If the “spares” provided actually encompass ALL the aircraft components, then like the broom they could be “5 new handles and 7 new brushes” in its lifetime, but it still retains it’s original identity.
Had this come directly from say the RAF with all these spare parts, wings, engines, fuselages, cockpits and whatever, would we be having this debate? I fancy someone would do the maths, say “I’ve bought 4 Fury’s and have enough spares for 4 more, lucky me”.
I understand the concern over provenance and that it now seems that we have WG655 wings in NZ that could conceivable be mated to a “spares” fuselage that may not have its own serial; and a cockpit from WG655 still in US, so again after mating with other spare “anonymous” components we could have 3 airframes all claiming to have a bit of WG655, but all parties would be aware of the issues involved in one claiming the identity.
If a Hercules can virtually be brand new and not a 40 year old “original” airframe after replacement of all major components, its still on the RAF fleet as being what it started as.
Let’s not get heated over this, the point has been well made that a restoration should use original components where possible, but I’d rather have warbirds restored to safe flying condition with “new metal” rather than rely on 50 or 60 year old parts if that keeps them flying. Once they can no longer fly, then restore them to original condition without retractable tail wheel, as on the ground authenticity won’t be putting lives at risk.
Hopefully, I’ll now go down in history as having coined the expression “Triggers broom” for restorations!!!
Icare9Must be 64 Sqn as the Spitfire pilot and his dog thread show 611 Qdn with a variety of ahem “less well bred” dogs, although a GSD would have had a tough time finding a home in Civvy St.!! (or had they started calling them “Alsaciennes” by then?)
Icare9If I remember correctly, there were the metal remains of an Avro Avian fuselage left in he open next to a hangar on the far side of Southend airport. You could see it between the fence and hangar beside a footpath crossing to Rochford. That was in the 60’s so no doubt long gone, together with many Dragon Rapide wings and much else beside in the old scrap dump.
Icare9Peeps, thank you very much for the helpful advice. The family of Doug Milliken RCAF (rear gunner) twin brother and who recently died, have made contact with 51 Sqdn historians and have been put in touch with the families of 5 other crew members. P/O Salvage’s widow is still going strong and Doug was their best man. The ring had the pilots initials and wedding date inscribed, but there must have been other personal effects for it to be returned to her. The RCAF records might contain a copy of any MREU report, so they will contact all “official” sources for any further information. I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clear.
The purpose of my posting here, and on other fora (sp?) as I discover them, is to see if any of the members have “weird science” that accesses info not available by a quick “Google”. I apologise if I have bumped into any of you in cyberspace, but it isn’t always possible for one site to have ALL the knowledge and identities aren’t always easy to penetrate!
Any way, thanks for this, and anybody who thinks they can help locate where HR732 may have crashed and therefore narrow down the search, please chip in!
I spent yesterday plotting the 25 casualties from the raid on Google Earth nd half lok to have been on the route to Leipzig. HR782 which was shot down by flak near Weiler, Boppard in the vicinity of Mainz reported seeing a bomber hit twice by flak and explode. As HR732 took off at about the same time (0009 and 0012) from Snaith, then it is possible that HR732 was still nearby and could have been this flak casualty. It would also explain why no nightfighter claim (which at least would have given time and location).
A little coincidence is that a 78 Sqdn aircraft LW313 crashed further south and I read the crew names whilst plotting sites. LW313 was the next listed casualty and the rear gunner was a Patrick Regan, aged 18 and one of the youngest BC crew to die. Patrick is my middle name….
So I feel that this is the best time to locate the wreck and what happened to the crew.With your help, the family may at last have a known grave site, even if they may not actually know who is who.
I’ll keep you posted on any updates as info comes in.
Much appreciate what you are doing! Kevin
Icare9Linzee, thanks for your reply. I obviously didn’t set the link correctly for your forum, here’s another go…
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/329990-gaining-r-f-pilots-brevet-ww11-38.html
it’s the PPRuNe website and the Military Aircrew sub forum that the thread “Gaining an RAF pilots brevet in WW2” is in.
I couldn’t find the RAF Commands forum, it was being spammed a long while ago but Google didn’t throw up anything else….. Do you have the URL ?
Your point about the MRES is a good one. PO Salvage’s widow recalled that it was sent from either Germany or the US. If official RAF channels used I would think she would recall that, although obviously the shock of knowing for certain her husband was dead and time have dimmed details of it.
The rear gunner Sgt Doug Milliken was RCAF and the family of his twin brother (also RCAF who died just over a month ago) are leading fresh efforts to discover what happened and possibly locate the remains of the crew.
Through the 51 Sqdn historians they have made contact with the families of 5 other crew members, including PO Arthur Jack Salvages widow Constance. Sgt Milliken was their best man, so there are many people now hoping that the crash site might be discovered and from there tracing them.
I will pass on your suggestion and they will contact the RCAF to see what their records might hold.
Any good news I will pass on!
Thanks again, and if anyone else has anything useful to say, don’t be bashful.
I’ve spent the afternoon reviewing Lost Bombers and as I put both the 3rd and the 4th in, I inadvertently collected 40 from the Berlin raid the night before.
The Leipzig raid had 25 losses. Of those with known crash sites I have plotted on Google Earth and half of them appear to be on a SE track to Leipzig and likely to be on approach. 2 are close to a direct line from the Wash to Berlin and 2 look to have headed SW towards Luxembourg and close to the Rhine, as if using that as a marker point. That’s where HR782 went down after seeing a bomber explode. The flight took about 8 and a half hours back to base, so these would have at least an hour and a half from just south of Bonn and East of Mainz, putting the crash time at about 7 am. It’s a strange course from Leipzig but may have been an insiders route thought to be clear of flak and fighter….. unfortunately not that night….
Appreciate your help, thanks
Kevin
Icare9There is a BBMF VE Day commemoration flypast at Runnymede at 11:27 tomorrow. Anyone know if the Lanc is back from Amsterdam (Operation Manna?) with new starboard outer?
Icare9Very nice video, but starting the engine looks more complex than usual, what with having to try and escape from the cage.
Whilst I’m sure they were being responsible, it did seem extremely sedate and cumbersome compared to the Fokker… and as for the observer gunner, getting first dibs at flies and STANDING UP!!!….. aaaagh!!!
Great filming, why don’t we have weather like that here??
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