Just a different set of ships with some add on’s

4 Absalon class multi-role Frigates $900 million
6 Oaxaca class 86m OPV’s $280 million fitted with Scanter 4100 radar
2 Makassar Landing platform dock $100 million up graded with Scanter 4100 radar, link16 and sat coms
Upgrade the 8 Lynx’s $ 120 million
Buy 6 Super Puma $ 120 million to help with movement of troops and kit from ship to shore
20 Scan Eagle systems $64 million for the marines a unit to be set up and able to operate this system land based or from all classes of ship

Total cost naval spending $1.59 billion

I have found out it very interesting your commentary about the interest from Argentina in the development process of the Gripen NG for Brazil, however this great fighter has been won a turnaround competition with 18 years for elapsed time while others were also pointed out as winners before the Gripen NG like:
2002: Su 35M Flanker
2010: Rafale F3
2012: F/A 18 E/F Super Hornet
2013: Gripen NG

In fact the Gripen NG were benefited from political problems between Brazil and France in 2010 because of the nuclear deal with Iran, and with US in 2013 in reason of the NSA scandal , beyond that the Su 35E Flanker were disqualified by Brazil in 2009 for had not been meeting the requirements of 100% ToT for Brazil.

If Brazil had been opted by: Su 35E, Rafale F3 or F/A 18 E / F instead the Gripen NG the Argentina would also shown the same interest as it did with the Gripen NG in 2014?

Luckily for the UK that Brazil has not chosen the Su 35M in 2002 as well the Su 35E in 2013, after all I do not think the UK would have been capable to convince the Russia the Su 35E should not sell for Argentina,at least with Rafale F 3 from France maybe there were a possibility.

To bad luck for Argentina and also Brazil that Gripen NG has been winner the competition from Brazil, since that Brazil has been lost the opportunity to sale fighters for Argentina, once among all the competitors the Gripen NG were exactly that on which the UK could block easiest the sale for Argentina.

Anyway if Argentina has been interest in the Gripen NG which belongs for a UK company, apparently the Argentine government should not have any restrictions for other possible source from new fighters or even second hand fighters.

The point here is that no matter what the FAA want or get unless things change and money is first given and then spent better any new type will just sit on the ground for lack of funding lets face facts here the FAA are finding it hard to operate the A-4’s on the up side it looks like the C-130 fleet will get a face lift

Toonyc has touched upon the real issue (as has Buitreaux in the past), whilst we here on a UK based aviation forum get easily distracted into debates about the Falklands for the Argentine airforce this is about credible defence of their borders.

The FAA are now at a point where their fast jet capability is at the edge of collapse. They are struggling to secure their borders and the de facto type performing QRA is the subsonic A-4. The Mirage capability (all types including Nesher) is no-longer credible and virtually inoperable for maintenance, safety and airframe life reasons. Many of the A-4 are sitting in storage and the navy Etendard are in need of a modernisation, the only positive news in recent years is limited purchases of updated Pampa giving them a type that can at least keep pilots in jets in lieu of a better solution.

Add to that the radar coverage of their borders is spotty to non existent means that even if they had a supersonic type to intercept interlopers they don’t have the means to properly detect them.

Out to sea piracy of fishing stocks by Chinese factory fishing ships operating between Argentine and Falklands waters is rampant, the Argentine navy has not got the capacity to properly patrol their waters with MPA or fisheries protection vessels to chase them out. (Slightly mentioning the Falklands here) Argentine refusal to work with the Falklands over fisheries protection only exacerbates the situation. There are satellite images of the South Atlantic at night where you can see a huge blob of light from the Chinese city at sea of fishing vessels.

It is a very sad situation for a country that in the 60’s and 70’s arguably had the best fast jet force in South America.

Whilst as a British citizen I don’t want Argentina threatening the security of the Falkland Islands I actually think it would be to Argentinas and the Falklands benefit if Argentina could properly patrol its borders ensuring drugs are not being run over the porous frontier or illegal fishing damaging fish/squid stocks.

You are right of course however if they spend the money they have better they could still be a good force for Home de-fence and UN work I put this together in 2013 so swap the Fassmer OVP 90’s with more P-3’s

As an exercise in procurement and using the Argentine Navy as a model over 6 years I put this together

Year 1

1 Fassmer OPV-90 90 meter light frigate multi-role $54 million estimated
2 Fassmer OPV-80 80 meter corvettes multi-role $38 million each known
2 frassmer FPV-40 40 meter patrol boats $8.5 million each known
2 Eurocopter AS565 $18.5 million each known

Also in this year retire the navy fast jet fleet and the Destroyer D-10Light frigates P42 and 43 and patrol boats P-20&21

Year 1 cost $184 million

Year 2 same as year 1 also in year 2 retire the Destroyers D-11 & the 3 Drummond class Corvettes and patrol boats P-85&86

Year 2 cost $184 million

Year 3

1 Fassmer OPV-90 90 meter light frigate multi-role $54 million estimated
1 Makassar Landing platform dock $38 million known
1 Fassmer OPV-80 80 meter corvettes multi-role $38 million each known
2 frassmer FPV-40 40 meter patrol boats $8.5 million each known
2 Eurocopter AS565 $18.5 million each known

Also in this year retire the type 42 B-52 and the Light frigates P-41& 44 and patrol boats P-61&62

Year 3 cost $184 million

Year 4 same as year 3 also retire the Destroyers D-12&13 and the cargo ship Bahía San Blas and patrol
boats P-63&64

Year 4 cost $184 million

Year 5

1 Fassmer OPV-90 90 meter light frigate multi-role $54 million estimated
2 Fassmer OPV-80 80 meter corvettes multi-role $38 million each known
2 Eurocopter AS565 $18.5 million each known
1 new replenishment ship $25 million estimated

Year 5 cost $172 million

Year 6 10 Super Puma Helicopters 15.5 million each

Year 6 cost $155 million

After 6 years the navy will have

2 new landing platform docks
5 new 90 meter Light frigates
8 new 80 meter Corvettes
8 new 40 meter Patrol boats
1 new Replenishment ship
10 new Eurocopter AS565 Helicopters
10 new super puma Helicopters

At a cost of 1.063 billion dollars or 1/30th of the defence budget if it was 5 billion dollars a year over the 6 years plus the Fassmer OPV-80/90 and the FPV-40 could and should be built in the countries dock yards meaning jobs for the country

I’m thinking, even with an E-2 in support, the F-5’s would find Typhoons nearly impossible to engage.

I never said or even hinted that a F-5 could or should engage a Typhoon what I said was it was a good twin engine type with which to fly sorties to force the Falklands QRA. What was also said is that by using a mix of F-5 – P-3 -C-130 they could force the QRA to regenerate to a point that there is a gap in the QRA

the point that any BVR type with a good link system and AEWaC support will up the threat level is a good one is it winning one maybe not but it is a big jump in threat

Also when you look at the F-5 EM upgrade it comes with a simulator this takes us back to the real point that is the Argentinian air arms need to change the way they go about their training and tasking this is what I put forward in June 2013 swap Mirage F-1 for F-5 EM

When you look at Argentina’s Military aviation all three services are flying too many different types and all do the same things like transport and Training they really need to make some simple changes that will save money and improve training and Tasking like

All basic flying training to be carried out at one school for all three services on one Type

Fast Jet Air force and Navy to train at the same school on Tucano and Pampa

All helicopter pilots to train at one school on the MD500 and bell 212 twin Huey

All multi-engine training to be carried out on the Twin Otters as they already have 10 of them

All fix wing transport to be carried out by the Air force with the exception of 5 C-212’s for the Army buy 8 C-295M’s for the air force and retire the F27 & F28 fleets

All transport helicopters to be operated by the Army 20 Huey 2’s and 15 Mil-17’s with the ramp plus two Helicopters for VIP work

All maritime patrol and SAR to be carried out by the Navy buy 18 Bell 412 for SAR role to be operated in 6 flights of 2 aircraft also add 4 C-295 MPA’s

Move all Learjet’s and Citations to the Air Force for VIP work

Find and order 2 two seat Skyhawks fitted to Fightinghawk speck transfer 10 Fightinghawks to the Navy to work along side Brazilian Navy Skyhawks on the Brazilian carrier

Buy the 18 Mirage F-1’s from Jordan upgrade them to MF2000 speck plus buy the 10 best F-1CR’s from for the recon strike role. I know they have tuned down F-1 in the past but I still think F-1 MF2000 is there best option at this time

So it would end up looking like this

Tri service Basic flying School operating 25 aircraft and shearing a base with the Tri service Helicopter training school operating 12 MD 500’s and 8 Bell 212’s for pilot and rear crew training

Tri service multi-engine training school operating 10 Twin Otters and the Airforce and Navy fast jet school operating form the same base operating 25 Tucano’s and 35 Pampa’s

these simple changes will save money and help Tri service cross over

For added fun they could stagger a couple of sorties forcing the QRA to regenerate and then they could slip a jet over the Falklands itself. If you had a “tourist” on the Ground who knew where to be they could get some HD video footage to show off.

Yep their could get the P-3’s and C-130s in on the game you know under the (oh we have a fishing boat missing) means their don’t need to use F-5 for all of the sorties

Don’t forget that the Su24M2 could come with Kh31P & Kh59.

Good luck using whatever frigate or destroyer as a radar picket with an opponent equipped with Kh31P & various versions of Kh59 unless it’s a T45 or something.

It’s not the number of airframes that count, it’s the number and type of missiles you get along with it.

12 Su24 are way enough if you have what it takes to arm them.

Nic

Its like all these things once the game is upped one strike at the air fields that home the threat we are all back to a war of words we are talking a small number of airframes here

Then again they have a SU22M4 at Scampton so the CAA certainly have confidence in them as it certainly be classed as “Complex” in comparison to a Hunter!

http://www.hunterteam.com/www2014/Aircraft/Sukhoi/

The civilian military trials and support market is certainly getting interesting what with companies like Draken international expanding. An F-4F flying in the UK would be cool especially if they painted her in 74Sq colours (the only J79 operating Phantom squadron in the UK).

But what work would they need a F-4 for