F-1 with Exocet is a well proven maritime strike platform. The most important role of the Argentine forces today is UN peacekeeping all of the kit in my post works at all levels not all transports need to be tactical given that a lot of the work done is peacekeeping a 757 in freight configuration can carry 39 tons 3800 Nm or in passenger config 200+ it is very useful at getting men and kit to places and freeing up tactical airlift. Transport helicopters are a must in modern tactical thinking able to move lots of kit from artillery to Casa vac. The OPV’s and frigates once again are very useful in peacekeeping and costal defence
I would agree with this point if the delays did not bring with them such a large cost increase
For me right now the most important pieces of kit needed right now and in order are
1) A new fighter type for local air defence and right now F-1M could carry this out for the next ten years in region
2) fixed wing transport as said I think they need 8 C-295s to complement the C-130’s and future KC-390’s and maybe 2 757-200m combi’s I think these type would make a big difference to their UN work
3) 20 Mil-17’s with the ramp as they are missing a good transport helicopter to aid with UN work and help with movement of men and kit in country
4) 4 new frigates and 8 new OPV’s
As for military planning first off the defence of Argentina is the at the top next comes the UN work true offensive capability is the last thing on the list at this time
Firstly if I was to be picky Israel has only been around for about 70 year 90% of Tec was transferred from others
Just as the Mig-15 was powered by a copy of the British Nene engine the American P80-F84 and F-86 were powered by copies of the British Sapphire engine and in both the Mig-15 and the F86 the airframes came from German Tec after the war
*The Bell X-1 the first aircraft to brake the sound barrier After the*rocket plane*ran into*compressibility*problems in 1947, it was modified with a variable-incidence*tailplane*thanks to the British who in an agreement with the US government (to develop a joint supersonic fighter) handed over the*all-moving tail*developed for the*Miles M.52*and associated turbojet data to Bell and used in transonic flight on the X-1, allowing it to pass through the sound barrier safely, unfortunately the USA subsequently reneged on the agreement.
Lets also not forget that America – Russia – China -India and Europe would not be what they are toady without a little thing called the Railway oh by the way a British design
And I can go on and on and on about the British Empire and the good and bad points of it but here and now is not the place
I think that those OV-1s could be easily replaced by further Pucarás as a way to strength the local industry and finance further development of the aircraft, more importantly WP (lot of grain of salt here) points to 10 being operational, and even with upgrades and an improvement in the maintenance those aircraft are about 40 years old and replacing them would help to eliminate another logistics line.
Dump the fighter carrier aviation (the A-4 and any ideas of deploying them from any carriers in the future): Argentina will no longer have the economy, political will or foreign support to operate a carrier force. Instead use that money to invest in a fighter-bomber with long-range anti-shipping capability or in a submarine force.
I’m not sure about the current state of those C-212s. Sources “say” that the Army has one or two 212-200 in service — easy, dump them and have the AF do that job or have them share a C-295 fleet — and the Coast Guard has five C-212-300 (maritime patrol and surveillance) — have them operate these aircraft until they reach their lifetime and only then buy the C-295MPA. Additionally, have an ASW version of the C-295 (either a buffed up C-295MPA or simply additional C-295 dedicated to that role) replace the P-3 in the future. Under this thinking an aircraft with longer range would be purchased in the far, far future to complement both the C-295MPA/ASW, thus replacing effectively the P-3 in range, and replace the S-2 Trackers.
Would the navy’s SAR helicopters complement the Coast Guard’s SAR helicopters or would the navy take over that mission?
Best regards,
Firstly the Navy’s SAR helicopters would complement coast guard units as for types used I was trying to move airframes around and fill gaps as cheaply as possible I agree with the Pucara’s but they do have the OV-1’s so use them until they need replacement
As I have said before Argentina lost the best chance they had in 82 by just extending the runway at Stanley to take the Mirage 3’s and Etendard’s it would have forced the British fleet to fight closer to the threat and they might of got a carrier
When you look at Argentina’s Military aviation all three services are flying too many different types and all do the same things like transport and Training they really need to make some simple changes that will save money and improve training and Tasking like
All basic flying training to be carried out at one school for all three services on one Type
Fast Jet Air force and Navy to train at the same school on Tucano and Pampa
All helicopter pilots to train at one school on the MD500 and bell 212 twin Huey
All multi-engine training to be carried out on the Twin Otters as they already have 10 of them
All fix wing transport to be carried out by the Air force with the exception of 5 C-212’s for the Army buy 8 C-295M’s for the air force and retire the F27 & F28 fleets
All transport helicopters to be operated by the Army 20 Huey 2’s and 15 Mil-17’s with the ramp plus two Helicopters for VIP work
All maritime patrol and SAR to be carried out by the Navy buy 18 Bell 412 for SAR role to be operated in 6 flights of 2 aircraft also add 4 C-295 MPA’s
Move all Learjet’s and Citations to the Air Force for VIP work
Find and order 2 two seat Skyhawks fitted to Fightinghawk speck transfer 10 Fightinghawks to the Navy to work along side Brazilian Navy Skyhawks on the Brazilian carrier
Buy the 18 Mirage F-1’s from Jordan upgrade them to MF2000 speck plus buy the 10 best F-1CR’s from for the recon strike role. I know they have tuned down F-1 in the past but I still think F-1 MF2000 is there best option at this time
So it would end up looking like this
Tri service Basic flying School operating 25 aircraft and shearing a base with the Tri service Helicopter training school operating 12 MD 500’s and 8 Bell 212’s for pilot and rear crew training
Tri service multi-engine training school operating 10 Twin Otters and the Airforce and Navy fast jet school operating form the same base operating 25 Tucano’s and 35 Pampa’s
The Airforce would operate
28 Mirage F-1’s
16 Fighting hawks
6 C130’s to be replaced by KC-390’s
8 C-295M
4 Learjets and 2 Citation’s
30 Pucara’sNavy
12 Fightinghawks
4 P-3 Orion’s
4 C295 MPA’s
3 S-2 Tracker ‘s
6 super king airs
4 Seakings and 4 AS555’s
18 Bell 412’s for SARArmy
5 C212’s
20 OV-1 Mohawks
20 Huey 2’s
15 Mil-17’s
20 Bell 206’s
20 Z-11’sAll other types would be withdrawn from service
as you can see the needs of the Argentinian Air Arm’s has been looked at and buy moving airframes around and adding some new types they could come up to speed quite quickly say 5 to 8 years
Also pick your own fighter type I just feel right here and now Mirage F-1M will give them a good type in region for local air defence and a good place to move on from
Gripen A/B would be a good fit as long as it could carry and firer AIM-9/120 and dose anyone know at what cost Gripen A/B could be offered at
In the 80’s the Pakistan air force F-16’s shot down a few Mig-23’s but did their Mirage 3’s ever engage Mig-23’s on that border
[ATTACH=CONFIG]218330[/ATTACH]
An F-1 MF2000 cockpit
The world control to 1/4 earth cannot be applied to British empire. Control mean you fundamentally change some thing under control. see the legacy of failed islamic states that British ruled. India forged alliance with Soviet Union. Australia went into American lap. HK delivered to China.
Above all there is no money (Olympic facilities need Qatar funding) or scientific heft left in Britain despite fully adopting multiculturalism.Soviet Union different kind of empire. Russia still command still great deal of influence in that space and is center of all scientific base of Soviet Union.
see this example. let Britain command such power.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/asia/article3607261.ece
So this is completely off topic but needs saying and some points need making and then we can put this to bed hopefully
(Control mean you fundamentally change some thing under control)
Firstly what you are trying to tell me is that none of the countries you have mentioned were shaped and change mostly for the better by the British Empire if so you need to go away for a long time and read world history
Russia has become a world leader in fighter design but its first real jet fighter was powered by a straight copy of the British Nene engine and lets be straight about history both Russia and the British Empire have had many a common fight that has seen there making Russia nearly fell to Napoleon but he could not bring his full force to the fight as he was also fighting the British and the same could be said about the First and Second World Wars this said it also works the opposite way round
As for Australia I have a lot of friend and family who live there but in its modern form it was born and shaped by the British Empire
And Thobbes you are right the Queen is only symbolic but she symbolic and as time goes on I see that Australia will drop the British monarch
And to say the British have no scientific base is simply wrong the Typhoon is one of the best fighter out there now the Type 45 is one of the most powerful fighting ships in the world we are heavily involved in the F-35 program
So how much land mass does it control and how much of the world’s population does it hold sway over now?
I think it safely meets the definition of failed!
[Not that Team America or quasi-Soviet Russia have been doing much better in avoiding their inevitable decline either.]
The point is no one will ever be as powerful again every empire will be replaced at some point I mean lets face it China did it on a smaller scale centuaries back lets also not forget that the Queen of England is also the head of state of 15 other Commonwealth realms so Little old Britain still has some sway across the globe
back on topic 2 JF-17’s would have to be lucky to get in close to a Su-30 and even if they did would have to hope the pilot was having a bad day if I was flying a Jf-17 I would try to keep the fight as low and as fast as poss
The British Empire can hardy be called a failed superpower at its height it controlled a ¼ of the earths land mass and held sway over one fifth of the worlds population and was the foremost global power for over a century and the biggest Empire in history given all that I think all other upstarts have got some big shoes to fill
Second Hand Gripen C/D could also work for the Mexican airforce 14 C’s and 4 D’s with a higher top speed to make interceptions
I think it depends on what life the current Mig-29’s have left if there is life left to carry out an upgrade to SMT standard then possibly this is the way forward pick the 15 best airframes and rotate them through the upgrade program at the same time buy 20 Mig-35’s once the first 8 29’s are back from upgrade retire the older 29’s also start to look at JF-17 as a replacement for the SU-25 fleet with a view to getting 40 airframes last of all replace the L-39 fleet with 25 Yak-130’s this should give them a more flexible air defence and ground attack capability
I still think they need to get a tactical airlift type An-32 or C-295 possibly C-295 as they already operate 3 HC-144’s
Also as said T-129’s to replace Mil-24/35’s
[QUOTE=PLA-MKII;2041037]Thankfully there are saner heads in argentina that realize buying an outdated plane known for its horrid maintenance record, a plane whose spare parts would be costly and hard to comeby, if far from a sane purchase for argentina.
Mirage F-1 is far from having poor availability in Exercise Frisian Flag 2013 it had the best availability of all types sent other types sent M2K – F-16 – Gripen. As Wilhelm has pointed out you keep going on about the F-1’s poor maintenance but its service record stands for it self do you think if you keep saying it it will come true