There you go again forgetting the teentzy weentzy democracy thing vis a vis what the majority of ulster residents wish for 😉

edit…I am not that bothered myself,but it is a complicated issue.
The whole religious thing just makes me laugh,there is no real difference between any irish residents…as some of us have alluded to previously – it is a power trip for certain people.

Yes the majority of residents in the 6 counties do wish to retain the union with the UK. What I am worried about is that Britain has made it that way by first sending scores of Protestant people mainly from Scotland to settle in the north of Ireland and remove the Catholic landowners there by force. Fast forward to 1921 and the British could have kept the 9 counties of Ulster (N.I plus Monaghan, Cavan and Donegal) but that would have meant a slight Republican majority so they split up Ulster into the maximum amount of land they could keep whilst still having their majority. The overwhelming majority that loyalists have in Belfast and the surrounding area and the sizeable community in Derry means that they could include Fermanagh and Tyrone, two very Republican counties but with very little population wise. So yes, democratically a slight majority want to keep the union but Britain has got away with carving a foreign land so that it suits their political view.

I also have to disagree with the view that the conflict in Ireland is between two religious groups. Yes you have the Protestants and the Catholics but I choose to view the situation as more about Brits (Protestants) and Irish (Catholics). That way the British government can argue that the conflict in Ireland is a religious one between two sets of people from the island of Ireland and they are just interested in keeping the peace, so they went in in 1969 to keep the peace. In reality the “Protestants” are people who owe their allegiance to Britain and have a hatred for anything Irish. The “Catholics” are people who owe their allegiance to Ireland, the island they live on!! However this view would highlight the fact that Britain simply cannot be seen as a neutral peacekeeper in Ireland EVER!!

Bob: I am actually amused you think I am a troll instead of an Irish sympathiser putting forward a different view from the one you hold. If you dislike me or my views you can simply choose not to open this thread. Of course I would love for people to stay and debate Ireland with me, I do enjoy it however people are more than welcome to ignore me if they find my views repulsive.

RH: Actually my elders as you refer to them are just as respectable as any other politician out there. You calling them semi-respectable is an insult to the sacrifices they have made during the years of conflict against the British.

I do not think for one minute that Republicans in Ulster lack freedom these days. Things have got a lot better over the past 10 years for everyone but there is still work to do to achieve the ultimate aim of kicking the colonialists out of Ireland and allowing Ireland to decide its destiny alone!

I wouldn’t see anyone I worship as dubious at all!! One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist.

I am certainly not a machine gun totting murderer as no matter how much I may hate certain people in N.I and how strongly I may feel about it I would never shoot at anyone over it. So you can hardly say I need to grow up when I am passionately putting forward a point of view in a peaceful manner!

The only consolation being that we were all angry about something or other when we were young and rebellious, but we all grew up so let’s hope that applies to our friend before any harm is done.

Mods, please edit if this is seen to be criticising a fellow forumite, but it is rather relevant to his posts.

RH you’ll need to do a lot better than that to upset me, I’ve heard worse whilst debating the issue with my partner!

Maybe it is just youthful rebelliousness but look at Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams they began as young rebels and are still just as determined in their 60s!!

They were no angels, certainly not but I am trying to convey the point that the British Army were just as bad and Bloody Sunday is not the only time an innocent civilian was shot by them or intimidated by them. The British Army intimidated many Irish people throughout the conflict and seemingly, according to eyewitnesses, took great pleasure in doing so!

Bmused55: I must disagree with you on a couple of points there:

1. “The IRA on the other hand purposefully sought to wreak as much death and destruction on civilians as possible. Why? Because they had a different faith to theirs.” – if you knew anything about the constitution of the IRA (yes there is such a thing and it was defended strictly by the Army Council) you would know that the IRA were not a sectarian killing force out to kill Protestants. The IRA maintained throughout the conflict that their war was with the British Forces and any other arms of the British state implicit in the oppression of the Irish people. They were not out to kill Protestants at all. The conflict in Ireland is between Loyalists (who happen to be mostly Protestant) and Republicans (who happen to be mainly Catholic), so to say it was a sectarian war is slightly inaccurate.

2. Your post seems to suggest that because the IRA were giving the British Army a hard time, a good on them for it, the Paras were then slightly justified in shooting unarmed civilians who were not IRA members or at least it could not be proven that they were IRA members. Yes many teenagers in Catholic, therefore Republican areas did throw stones and rocks and the occasional patrol bomb at the Army but that had no link to IRA membership. The IRA had better things to do with their time, for example the Warrenpoint Ambush where the IRA successfully ambushed a truck load of soldiers by setting a roadside bomb, those who survived the blast ran for shelter in an old castle opposite the blast site, of course the IRA were one step ahead of them and were there just waiting to pick them out.

So by all means shoot the IRA, take the IRA on with all the fire-power the British Army have but please leave innocent teenagers alone and if someone is running away from you, don’t shoot them in the back! Most disciplined army in the world! Haha, more like bunch of murdering b******s!!

Some ejit in Penicuik shining lasers at my dad’s flight back from TFS today. (Penicuik from the pilot’s estimation of where it was coming from, I know it is a lovely place)