I’d like to see those.
Follow the link at post #4
If it is not a war crime to bomb one’s enemy indiscriminately as in the case of the V2, why then do certain sections of society wish to vilify Bomber Command Veterans for the role in the destruction of Dresden?
Quite so Kev. It is either acceptable or it is not to be indescriminate in one’s bombing. And that standard must then apply to all of us.
Most/many of us tend to forgive Von Braun but point the finger at Hitler, and forgive RAF Bomber Command aircrew but point the finger at Harris/Portal/Churchill.
Your point is therefore well made, we should not vilify Bomber Command veterans – or we should vilify Von Braun.
Did he not realise that all those V2’s fired at London (and other cities) were full of explosive,and aimed a civillians? I think he was lucky to escape an indictment for war crimes.
Que? What sort of a war crime is it to bomb your enemy? As we all did BTW.
Better to observe that V2’s were manufactured at least in part by slave labour from concentration camps.
IMHO you’re asking too wide a question ~ far too many variables (leadership, priority, production, fronts, Russia, USA, etc., etc.). I suggest you narrow the field and consider things campaign by campaign or something similar. And in that regard I recommend you read Deighton’s “Fighter” as part of your process.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37243
Good luck, D
edit:
Also Peter Hinchcliffe’s “The Other Battle” – a superb account and analysis of the Battle between RAF Bomber Command and the Nachtjagd
… it was he and ‘Bennetts’ that made the interception …
Was this something interesting/significant? (Not in any way seeking to belittle an “insignificant” interception). Thanks Don
last year’s conversation on the topic of revisionism FYI
Bomb them all to hell
My issue with this revionist view is that it is placed out of context. There was a war on for heaven’s sake.
My Uncle was one of those who did his best to hit his target tonight. And not so long ago I met a woman who, as a young girl, met my Uncle in England during his training in 1942.
During our correspondence I mentioned something about how I look upon the men of Nachtjagd in more-or-less equivalent terms to those of Bomber Command. Just young men doing their duty, fighting for what they thought right. On the one side the elimination of the Nazi menace and the other fighting against those who were trying to kill their mums and sisters.
Boy was I wrong … I got hit back with something to the effect that “we just wanted to bomb them all to hell!”. It turned out that this then young girl and her family had been bombed out of Coventry and were not-at-all well disposed to Germans of any variety. Oh.
Harris of course echoes this. As did pretty well the high command of RAF Bomber Command and right up through the political leadership of the country.
So in a sense Randall Hansen has a wash of truth to his positioning re. the plaque. But he misses the key point, made immediately above by my Coventry survivor, and more generally by others that … this was total war and the Allies were not at all disposed to be kindly or gentle towards their enemies.
In this context, hitting as hard as you can makes absolute sense. Then of course there are the technical factors we know so well … the accuracy of target finding and bomb aiming, the relative safety of a Bomber at night vs day, and the prevailing thought that strategic bombing would work – particularly as a weapon against the enemy’s morale. Flattening cities is very sensible in those contexts.
And as to the failure to reduce production … someone else pointed out to me some time ago when I offered up that suggestion … that what needs to be contemplated is, if production could increase in the circumstances, just imagine how significant production would have been without the disruption to productive capacity and workers lives and circumstances!
Mind you, I agree with Resmoroh above, this too shall pass.
Thanks for this guys. I think PilotFred’s making a valid point. The context in which I found this term, supports the proposition of coming to terms with a past.
W G Sebald in his book “On The Natural History of Destruction” attempts this. I recommend it to all of us armchair historians trying to understand what happened in 1940’s Germany.
Thanks for this guys. I think PilotFred’s making a valid point. The context in which I found this term, supports the proposition of coming to terms with a past.
W G Sebald in his book “On The Natural History of Destruction” attempts this. I recommend it to all of us armchair historians trying to understand what happened in 1940’s Germany.
there be more than one forum
IMHO there are a couple of other places where your question might be answered.
Start with 12 O’clock High – numerous historians frequent it.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=365&f=7
Well done that man!
Great stuff Dave … really a tremendous resource you’re building … and building .. and … where do you get the time?
Good point re the Rose Turret … “twin 50’s” as the narrator puts it. There’s a couple of segments from Night Bombers IMO, the mass of Lancs on the perimieter track, and a couple of takeoff segments (others being colourised B&W as you say).
Night Bombers
The “Night Bombers” DVD is readliy available including on Amazon UK
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Night-Bombers-Brian-Johnson/dp/B0001GNJK6
I have a video copy, recorded on TV here in NZ one night. Fantastic viewing. It’s a “day in the life” type of production (actually features all sorts of bits and pieces) primarily about preparation for an operation at RAF Hemswell. All genuine wartime footage in colour. I don’t believe it is 1945, elsewhere on the ‘net it’s referenced as (winter) 1943, ie. 1943/44.
Seared in my memory is an amazing sequence of Lancs on the taxiways around Hemswell, at dusk, looking very menacing indeed. There are bits of that scene on the youtube clip. The narrator says something like … at night they can be truly seen as what they are: “nocturnal predators of 20th century mechanised war”. The whole thing is very powerful I assure you.
A truly great piece of history to view over and over. The youtube clip includes bits of it.
Try ABE books, None in NZ, but there’s a couple listed in Aus, including one in Hylands.
EDIT: Someone’s 1,000th post!
Missed my point James … perhaps I should have been more clear. The book is readily available second hand in NZ (including on TradeMe our homegrown ebay). I’m wondering whether to buy it! Is it any good?
And as the 1000th. Not for the first time! I posted my 999th a few years ago (with a lovely picture of a Ducati), but then a bunch of people did a big clean out and I retreated to 7/800’ish. It’s a fickle thing when it’s not in your control. So no point observing it really.
cheers D
Honest !!!
I really am a gnome and I really do live in a garden … along with my friends Bill and Ben …