Some believe we “suspected” something was up

3 posts in a row in my own thread? Sorry, but I couldn’t help it … I’ve become fascinated by this Schräge Musik puzzle. How could we not have known?

I found this website of the 207 Sqn RAF Association, with this particular article possibly compiled by Frank Haslam (as he is the Website Editor). Do read it.

http://www.207squadron.rafinfo.org.uk/wesseling/wesseling_schrage_musik.htm

There are lots of quotations from secondary sources (various authors) including …

Bill Gunston (Night Fighters – A Development and Combat History) and Martin Middlebrook (BCWD and The Nuremberg Raid) both quoted at length re. the phenomenon of scarecrows (mysterious explosions in the bomber stream), and the ease and accuracy of Schrage Musik vis-à-vis ‘von unten hinten’ … for both inexperienced crews and experten. Gunston: “The result was that RAF heavies began to blow up, catch fire or break into pieces for no obvious reason. Many of the early such incidents, often witnessed by a score or more of the other aircraft in the stream, were put down to flak; but it often happened when flak was light or non-existent.” Gunston again: “all the NJG experten were using SCHRÄGE MUSIK as their primary armament by December 1943”

And again: “In theory (of course) these attacks should have been spotted on the FISHPOND display. This used a second cathode ray tube to show bearing and range of any echoes from the H2S emissions at intermediate heights below the aircraft and gradually replaced MONICA. For some months, the Germans were able to use SCHRÄGE MUSIK without Bomber Command apparently being aware of it. This rather surprised the Germans who expected that the civilians working on their airfields in occupied countries would sooner or later get details to the Resistance and hence to England.”

And again: “not until well into 1944 did the RAF at last tumble to what was happening and then only by a lot of hard thinking after studying the very few bombers that had, by great good fortune, managed to break out of the rain of shells and bring back to Britain evidence of air to air strikes all at the same near vertical angle.” He says “I happened to be at Manston in early 1944 and woke to find a damaged Lancaster outside. One prop was feathered and there were marks of several 20mm strikes, at least one of which had gone clean through the rear fuselage. It had blown a great hole in the top and made a mess of the four ammunition belts for the rear turret, but what shocked the crew was the angle. They were Australians and seemed to think that this was renewed evidence of a Luftwaffe secret weapon; tales of strange upward firing nightfighters had begun to get about.” “This strangeness was itself very strange because oblique upward firing guns had been common in WWI [refers to Captain Albert Ball], tested in several RAF aircraft between the wars and experimented with at great length with RAF nightfighters – mainly Havocs – as recently as 1941. I believe that none of the upward firing Havocs carried cannon, a typical armament being six oblique Browning .303s.”

Then Francis K Mason (The Avro Lancaster) is quoted: “In two raids at the beginning of January 1944, losses had increased sharply and it was clear that the German nightfighters were taking a much more prominent role. Losses in these raids were primarily among the higher altitude aircraft, suggesting that flak was being limited to the lower levels so as to give the fighters free rein higher up.” “A study of crew reports began to show that attacks were coming from directly below, though it was not clear exactly how this was being done. Some squadrons equipped with Lancaster IIs, armed with ventral guns, had begun to remove these as being superfluous weight – but this was stopped until the nature of the new German tactics could be assessed.”

And Bruce Barrymore Halpenny (To Shatter the Sky). “It is strange that Bomber Command did not know of the Schräge Musik method used by the German night fighters and just proves how bad their intelligence was.” “One or two Canadian COs, one being Wing Commander Pattinson of 429 ‘Bison’ Squadron, knew there was something but it was all presumption, not fact. They took out the Mid Upper turret and the displaced gunner lay on a mattress on the floor and looked through a perspex blister for night fighters coming up from below.’

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So we have a possible timeline …

WWI usage
RAF trials in Trials in early 1941 – using Havocs ??? Yes/No/Maybe?
Luftwaffe trials from late 1942 – thread http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=5415
Operational use in late Summer of 1943
Widespread by the end of the year
RAF noting a new tactic from January 1944 (if you accept Mason) or anyway during 1944
Some individuals acting on presumption something was up. Yes/No/Maybe?

But … nothing being done officially. Freeman Dyson stating we didn’t know (until after the war?).

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All in all it’s a good précis of a number of reasonably well thought of secondary sources; good reading. The link again …

http://www.207squadron.rafinfo.org.uk/wesseling/wesseling_schrage_musik.htm

Schräge Musik

Going back to Schräge Musik for a moment (Don, did you “pull” your supplementary thread cos I can’t find it?), a number of questions have occurred to me … mostly to do with Bomber Command’s ignorance of Schräge Musik.

Yes Al I did pull it. DaveM2 suggested I should try 12 O’clock high and after fluffing about a bit I re-discovered I am registered there too 😉 .

And sure enough, there’s a bit of discussion there … but much as here, not yet clear by any means. Take a look at this thread (to which I have added a query).

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=5415

cheers Don

I would have thought that the vast majority of night time shootdowns by Luftwaffe nightfighters against RAF Bombers fall into the category of “without any warning”, whether from the rear, underneath or any other direction?

Undoubted 682al. As you say, it’s more-or-less a given that the majority of shootdowns were unseen. My point, perhaps ill-made, was that the recollections/memoirs/whatever of both the pilot of the Lanc (Cox) and the nachtjager (Jung) are present in the account in Hinchcliffe’s book and we have Cox failing to mention anything to do with the method of attack (“without warning”) and Jung noting that a number of his attacks that night were Schrage Musik. All this does is mildly support, but far from prove, James’ observation or query.

But I believe James is right, that the RAF never put two and two together on this one. Sure a few aircraft arrived back at base with ‘angled’ bullet holes in them, but did no one wonder about that more than to say “gee, they got shot at from underneath”? Bear in mind there were only a few survivors to study; Schrage Musik was an extremely lethal weapon.

so there are some distinguishing features then?

Thanks for that 682al.

Some time ago I picked up a book from the local library; a large size hardback, it had all sorts of production information on all Lancasters built. For the life of me I don’t remember what that book was … if I did I’d go back and borrow it again!

EE147 (and I’m guessing EE146) was initially delivered to 617 squadron (hence wearing AJ-L coding for a while) sometime in May 1943. I speculated (still do) that it was a fill-in machine to make up numbers following the heavy losses on the Dams Raid ~ did that sort of thing happen? It was in standard night bomber configuration, not a special of any sort.

Not long after EE147 was transferred to 619 sdn, IIRC my Uncle flew in it as early as June 1943.

Chances are EE146 and EE147 would be identical and as you say probably as per EE139.

Any chance you can scan and post, or point to online references of those photos you are referring to?

Many, many thanks, Don