True for Yugoslav AF. Not true for Iraqi AF, their MiG-29s were delivered shortly before and the training was not quite complete at the time.

According to AWAST from February 1991, ”Iraqi MiG-29 pilots in particular appeared not to know how to fly as demonstrated by an early engagement in which a MiG-29 pilot shot down his wingman and then flew his own aircraft into the ground some 30 seconds later. Iraqi MiG-29 pilots reportedly flew with the air-intercept radar button taped down to lock onto the first aircraft detected and continually depressed the trigger to fire their weapons as soon as they acquired a target. Apparently, all Iraqi fighter pilots practiced these techniques, for when they managed to lock onto coalition aircraft, they launched their missiles at extreme ranges and missed every time”.

Does not sound like creme de le creme of Iraqi AF pilots to me..

The early MiG-29s also suffered from ergonomically sub optimal cockpits and badly designed avionics. I read a comparison once by a US fighter pilot who had flown both at least one the American F-15/16/18 series fighters and a MiG-29. His opinion was that one of the MiG-29s biggest shortcomings was that things that the American F-15/16/18 fighter’s computers would do for you were things you had to do or figure out your self if you were a MiG-29 driver. It wasn’t superiority of their aircraft, their better performance or superior technology that gave US fighters an edge; it was superior training, ergonomics and tactics. Needless to say much has changed in the MiG-29 since then but these early shortcomings were enough for some of the early MiG-29s to suffer against western fighters.

(Edit) Here it is: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1995/articles/jul_95/july2a_95.html

The MIG-29s that F-15C has fought and killed in the real wars (Gulf war and Yugoslavia confrontation) are all the early basic and down-graded types for exportation. According to the point of views of some US pilots, the performance of the radar and EWS the Iraq AF’s MIG-29 had used was even poorer than the performance of the radar and EWS of the MIG-23/25 it had. And the real combat record of the basic AA-10 (24 missiles for hurting only one MIG-29) during the confrontation between Eritrean (MIG-29s) and Ethiopian (Su-27) in 1999 is even worse than the combat record of AIM-4 during the vietnam war.

Not to mention the huge difference and advantage in fighter numbers for A2A combat, pilot’s training, logistics, C4ISR, AWACS, EW and so on of the F-15C’s side over MIG-29’s side during the Gulf war and Yugoslavia confrontation……..

I quite agree, in practically all cases where the F-15 has seen any significant amount of A2A action it was really no contest. In almost all cases the F-15 was pitted against forces that were either:

Usually they suffered form any number of combinations of the above. From what I have heard from the handful of guys I have met who served in the Former Yugoslav air defence forces, the MiG-29s sorties were regarded as suicide missions and a waste of perfectly good aircraft from the moment the pilots received the orders by all except a few unfortunates who were blinded by fanaticism. Basically the F-15 has not seen a major test against a worthy adversary.

F-35

Wow, whodda thunk it?!? 😀

Love that G.91 picture….is that an R variant or a Y variant? The Y had two much bigger guns didn’t it? 30-mm maybe?

The major G.91 variant operated by the Luftwaffe was the R/3 variant with 30mm DEFA cannon. The Luftwaffe also briefly operated some R/4 aircraft originally made for Greece and armed with .50 cal machine guns. The R/4 was found wanting due, among other things, to the weak armament which was near useless for a jet operating in the JABO (CAS) role. These R/4 aircraft were later (1966) passed on to the Portuguese air force who found the .50 cal armament equally inadequate. The FAP later also acquired ex-Luftwaffe R/3s but the R/3 only started arriving in 1976 IIRC. According to the English Wikipedia entry the G.91 was apparently not well regarded by Luftwaffe pilots who painted pictures of pigs on their aircraft to underline this shortcoming. German sources I read, however, contradict this and state the G.91 was well regarded by Luftwaffe pilots for it’s quality of manufacture, ruggedness, the absence of malicious flight characteristics and the ability to operate off extremely rough unpaved runways. The Luftwaffe has always placed importance on operations form improvised airstrips. AFAIK the twin engine G.91Y which was a huge improvement on the earlier G-91 variants only served with the Aeronautica Militare.

This combination is possible indeed. check mig-21 manuals below..

Thanks, it’s nice to get that confirmed. The MiG-21 operator’s manual must count as a bulletproof source. 😀 However, have never seen this combination used. Somebody told me the 800 liter tank wasn’t popular because it made the MiG-21 handle badly.

Which version of the MiG-21 is that manual for, the MF or the bis?

Too much overlap of defense spending between allies. Does Western Europe need three Fighter programs and a plethora of trainer programs for example? How many 5.56 rifles are used by NATO?? 15+???.

Perhaps Western Europe should dump them all and save costs by buying off the shelf American products? :diablo:

That’s effectively one point.

But it’s still good press – and that’s needed at the moment – especially if public/congressional support can potentially stave off the mire the F-22 found itself in – after the DoD/Pentagon slashed the numbers.

True, and the F-35 deserves it. Forgive me if I was being obnoxious, it is simply that these F-35 vs EF2k/Gripen/Rafale/Su-3X wars are beginning to get on my nerves. Every time one of these reports comes out the F-35 community jumps up and down and yells “Conclusive proof F-35 is best MR aircraft ever” and the EF2k/Gripen/Rafale/Su-3X fanboys break out the bazookas and shoot back. If what some of the more extreme fanboys are claiming for the F-35 is really true all the US will need is three of them. One in Europe, one in Asia and a thrid one in the US for training. To be on the safe side, and so as not to leave the US Navy feeling left out, maybe we should throw in a fourth F35 operating of the helipad of an Aegis cruiser in the Pacific to keep the Chinese navy in check? 😀

P.S. I stole that last sarcastic comment from a USAF Gen. James Ferguson and paraphrased it in case anybody reckognizes the quote.

Too much? I’m just happy that the jets getting some good press – it definitely deserves some.

Even if the JFS is a complete turkey, and I am not saying it is, but if it was, after all that Dutch taxpayer money being spent, and all those careers in the Dutch bureaucracy on the line there is no way this report could have ended up saying anything other than that the JFS is the best thing since sliced bread. Whether the JFS actually does turn out to be the best and cheapest multi role fighter bar none (like that article implies) is something I’ll judge from the JFS’ service record in, say… 2025? Just guessing I’d say the JFS will probably be up there on the top five list. but I’ll still prefer to wait and see rather than relying on a report compiled by a bunch of civil servant’s. I have a healthy degree of suspicion of anything compiled by civil servants and government employees in genera and especially when they are taking in ‘future tense’. 😀