“Cynical mode on”

I’m sure that if the RN had not sunk the Belgrano and they had lost the carriers or any ship to her for that matter, the media would be attacking the British for being gullible, naive, arrogantly over confident and downright stupid for NOT sinking her.

It was a dirty job that had to be done but as is usually the case (or so it seems) we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

“Cynical mode off”

I’m glad somebody is looking at this incident with an objective view at long last.

I would recommend you start with the Putnam book on Flight Testing at Martlesham Heath

Hmmm. Martlesham Heath. A very good place to start yes. 🙂

Tibexas Will Rise Again!

Dis, I have to say that this started out as an eloquent bit of Euro-bashing, but i have to say your lasts posts in the thread by far outweirded even Minidoh’s navel-centered worldview. The whole idea of an ‘Anglo-Saxon’ culture in the US is one dating back to the early to mid 19th century, when original ‘anglo-saxon’ inhabitants of the US tried with all their might to stop immigrants from countries like Ireland, Germany, (later) Italy, Eastern Europe (i’m sure you know a lot of Polak-jokes) and (nowadays) Latin America and Asia. Traces of this purely racist theory can be found in quite a few aspects of the United States: religion, politics, social climate, the lot. The KKK obviously being one of the more extreme examples obviously, but definately very proud of it’s ‘Anglo-Saxon’ roots.*

Pretty often, some of this Anglo-Saxon ‘racism’ rears up it’s head, usually in an evolved and camouflaged form (such as American Exceptionalism), but sometimes it’s really obvious. For example, the stubborn denial amongst right-wing Americans (and their Canadian cheerboys 😉 ) that the American political, social and cultural climate as founded in 1776 has a lot more in common with French political thought than anything even remotely ‘anglo-saxon’. Annoying facts like these are usually overwhelmed by bumper-sticker debate (“Texas is bigger than France” – as is the wife of the guy driving that Dodge Ram, actually), talk radio and whatever the reverend might have to say.

The apocalyptical world view you demonstrate seems to be mainstream in only two sub-cultures these days: militant Islam (kill all infidels, we’ll be going to Paradise and score even more virgins) and right-wing religious Americans (with the EU being the new Roman Empire, gathering momentum for the great battle on the plain of Armageddon). Wass sich liebt, das neckt sich!

* = there is something funny about this Anglo-Saxon pride if you add the White Supremacy BS to it. A very large, percentage of people of anglo-saxon decent in the (mostly Southern) United States were actually imported to provide cheap labour, for which slaves were simply too expensive. Remember that a slave was bought at a pretty high price, whereas you could import uneducated English peasants and have them do the really dangerous work, like mining or cutting trees. If a slave would die during this work, you would have lost an investment. If an imported peasant worker died, you scratched him from the payroll. These people really were the sorry scrapings on the bottom of the economical barrel in the US of the 19th century, the only thing which saved them from also being the lowest of the low on a social standard was their skin colour.

The name given for these cheap Anglo-Saxon labourers by their wealthy bosses of Anglo-Saxon descent? White Trash. Funnily enough, quite a bit of the offspring of these expendable labourers now still live in cheap housing (welcome to my trailer, y’all) in the former mining areas of Virginia and the like, giving themselves family names as first names (Lyndsay England anyone?), and with often enough still little more to feel good about themselves except for their skin colour and nationality. Poor dumb White Trash, what a sorry lot you are.

PMSL! 😀 😀 😀

Especially this bit……….

“(“Texas is bigger than France” – as is the wife of the guy driving that Dodge Ram, actually), “

ROFLMAO. Stop it. It hurts. Oh bugger there goes another rib! 😀

Fine, as long as he sticks to what he knows. His credibility has taken a dive in recent years with his rather alarmist, and highly unlikely fictional strategic scenarios to try and justify the need for certain big ticket platforms in the Australian Defence Forces. And at the same virtually discrediting the army and the navy as next to useless in defending the nation in war time. He believes the air force CAN do it all! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

That sounds very similar to our own Sue Willets. She thinks that the RAF should be made up of transport aircraft and bombers and all the air to air stuff can be dealt with by our American allies :rolleyes: . Its a bit pathetic for somebody who takes themselves seriously as a defence analyst.

Tazzers???

Kye???

Is that you?

Hellooooooo!

I’m sorry mate I was not paying attention. It did not register that it was THE Kye who posted the thread.

Phil 😀

Phil,

It’s not an argument , it’s an interesting discussion.
First of all you’re right when you say that Paris is ignoring ( at least this gov) the rules of the Euro. (so do UK , Germany , and NL).
You may say “What does UK has to do with Euro?” but amazlingly London commited to follow the ” stability pact”.

Anyway, you’re correct when you state that we are heading a Federal state.
You’re also correct when you say that your gov isn’t listening to what people want. If I can make you a bit more confortable , please note than it’s the same here.

I’m still convince that a European Federal state is the best solution for us. If we consider the US model it seems to me that each state has a large autonomy in the way they manage their own business.

And please don’t consider my prose as an anti UK thing , it’s nothing but an attempt to understand your views guys a little better.

The government may have committed to the stabilty pact but in the knowledge that they did not have the mandate of the electorate. That one is biting them on the arse now because the electorate is telling them in no uncertain terms that if they do this without our permission, they are out, they will be committing political suicide. The crunch question is why are the British so hostile and the answer to this has been give many times in many different explanations yet all saying the same thing. Europe is undemocratic and therefore a retrograde step in the grand scheme of European progression and worst of all some people were not even trusted with a choice before it was instigated. Britain is arguably one of the oldest democracies, don’t scoff I can qualify the statement. When I say democracy I use it in the loosest terms with regard to when it all began but like all other things in the world it has progressed and evolved into something that any other democracy can recognise and appeal to. This brings us back to the European commissioners. Who are they and what do they do? Who pays them and who elected them. If they have no role why do they have a job?

European commissioners are only the tip of the undemocratic iceberg and our reservations do not end there. We already have a superpower and a hyperpower why do we need another one? Haven’t we learnt anything? It strikes me that the only real reason to embark on the European train is to prevent a future European war (it has been mentioned) and I want to know why this is a possibility. Yet even if a European war is unavoidable if we do not have complete federal European integration then so to is a confrontation, at a later stage between superpowers. Europe and the USA do not get along at the best of times I’d hate to see them squaring up in some distant future dragging in my children and my grand children. It is simply not acceptable and as for another European war? Making it federal and integrated will not discount the possibility of war even if it was a civil one.

I’m sorry I have racked my brains to try to explain this and what I write never seems to get my point across. I have said I do not feel superior to Europeans yet I do not feel inferior either I see no difference but a federal Europe is not acceptable to me and as an aside, if the UK is embargoed by Europe as a result of a possible withdrawal from the EU, it would be legally and morally wrong. It would also be economically disasterous to many campanies both in Britain and the EU and politically inept. Which I suppose makes the possibilty almost inevitable.