O.P.I was born a WW2 and military geek. I don’t know how that happened. My dad served in the Navy, but never talked much about it. My family isn’t really big on the military (though it seems all of the males have been in, they just don’t have anything to say about it), or flying, or anything pretty much. I used to watch Vietnam on tv as a little kid. I also used to watch World at War on tv. I remember being mad the night President Nixon resigned, because all three channels had that on and it preempted World at War. I built a ton of models, ships, aircraft, tanks, cars, everything. I went to an airshow in 76 or 77 and saw a Hellcat and an F-86. That was pretty cool. I used to like to go to the Bomber gas station in Milwaukee Oregon when I was a kid. When I was 17, I dropped out of school and joined the military. While I was in I met a pilot friend who was a member of the Barbours Point flying club. Besides having cessnas, they had a T-34. That was cool. We flew that plane alot. It still didn’t take hold in my head until…..
About two years ago, my friends kids were having a birthday party. I went to Toy’sR-US to get some presents for them. While there, I found a JU-87 Stuka model/toy. It’s pretty cool. I bought it, for me. That turned into “it would be cool to have an rc airplane JU-87″. That turned into ” I like FW-190’s better”. I bought plans, short kits, kits, pieces parts for everything from cessna 182 to fw190, joined the AMA, talked to folks, everything. It kinda dawned on me that to have the plane I wanted, I was gonna spend more than 5k, and then have to learn how to fly it. Then it dawned on me (slowly), that for that kind of money, I could probably be a pilot, and maybe fly these planes myself.(It’s more money, trust me). I went to an airshow near home, and met a cool Nasa dude/warbird owner, and asked about a ride on his T28. I’ve also rode on the Collings B17 and B24, during this time. I’ve met a lot of Warbird owners and enthusiasts. As of today, I’ve got 45 hours (getting close) and 9 hours in T28 B’s and C’s (not loggable,whaaa, whaaa,whaa). I’m the luckiest guy I know.
O.P.The whole miserable saga is recorded HERE
The term ‘showboating’ comes to mind.
Moggy
Ohhhh, dude,,,WTF? I thought overheads/runs and breaks were conducted over the field. Thats the way I’ve always done it. Unbelievable, It doesn’t look like a break, it looks like he was buzzing his house. The yaks flight path makes no sense. I can’t believe someone would do that. Overtake an aircraft on base, break/buzz your house, come back to traffic pattern altitude, smash into right base cessna. Giving the “benefit” of the doubt, I guess you could say he was doing a left 270 to final. I got a warm fuzzy about where you’re coming from now. That wasn’t a break, it was a buzz. You’re too nice of a guy Moggy, “Showboating” isn’t what I’d call it. My word starts with “S” and ends with “hithead”.
O.P.There’s a formation week held on a regular basis at North Weald, and as mentioned there are commercial operators who run courses too.
High speed breaks don’t rock quite so much here since a pilot and his young son (?) flying a Cessna out of North Weald and positioned accurately in the circuit climb out were killed in collision with a Yak carrying out an unauthorised, unplanned and possibly badly flown run and break.
Moggy
It sounds like it happened at an uncontrolled airfield, with a pilot that flew a very low pass with an aircraft outbound in front of him. Thats a bummer that that happened. Without knowing the whole story, it sounds like carelessness and or inexperience was the major cause of the incident. When we come to an uncontrolled airfield, most of the time the overhead break is done very high, if there is traffic immediately around the field. At controlled airfields, we can do a break every time, the tower dictates altitude/floor. Did that incident cause the banning of overheads and breaks in England?
O.P.I’ve done formation flying with T28’s here in California. All of the owners I’ve flown with have been to the FAST course. I think it’s put on by the EAA a couple of times a year. I know those guys wouldn’t even consider forming up with someone who hasn’t been through that course. As everyone has said here,super, duper, dangerous, especially with the big variation in type’s. Do you guy’s have a FAST equivalent in England? I’m hoping to go to one here next year sometime. Formation flyby’s and high speed breaks ROCK!
O.P.Very cool! Thanks Whalebone. Man…..just walking up to the plane and seeing oil on the ground would start giving me the willie’s, as in a completely depressurized/leaky firing mechanism….
O.P.Before that, ( this is something I’m sure I was told as a child ), was there not a system in place where angled blades were mounted on props to deflect any bullets that may have hit the props. If I’m talking rot please tell me, but if not, how effective were these ?
No rot there. I’ve heard said that one in twenty deflected bullets came back the pilots way. I was thinking about that and, It’s not only dangerous enough that bulletts would come back at you, but I’d have to think that a good deal of the other’s might go to some very inconvienient places, wings, wires, ect.
O.P.From what I remember reading about it, it’s a cam on the prop shaft. When the lobe on the cam comes to the top, it pushes a rod up that disengages the firing mechanism/trigger. I know I probably don’t have it all, or have it completely right, but it is basically that simple.
O.P.This one came up on abaa.org,
Sturtivant, Ray BRITISH NAVAL AVIATION The Fleet Air Arm, 1917-1990.
Not sure if it is the right one, maybe it’s a compilation of the books.
O.P.The first warbird I think I saw as a kid, was at the bomber gas station in Milwaukee Oregon. There was a B-17 propped up over the gas station. Everytime we were in the neighborhood whoever was driving would have to stop because the little kid in the back seat would go wild until we stopped so I could go over and look at it. The first flying ones were at a Portland Air National Guard base airshow in 1976 or 77. F-4 Phantom directly overhead. There was also an F-86 that had flowers painted all over it, a messershmitt trainer, and a F6F Hellcat. I loved that Hellcat. It crashed the next day on it’s way home. Theres pictures of it over on Ronsarchive. I guess the owner still has the plane and has been trying to restore it since then.
O.P.I’m an American, so my view is probably a little skewed on this one, but, I’ll go for, Pre WWII,late 20’s through late 30’s. Just to have the chance to to get a crack at all of the beautiful Supermarine products, especially the Schneider cup birds. All of those planes were some of the most beautiful and powerful, for their type, ever made. I’ll have to go back and look it up, but I think RAF officers flew those planes, or sponsored them, or worked on them, like I said, I’ll have to go back and look it up,,,,,,,,,unless one of our bro’s here already knows (Hint, Hint)
O.P.That’s incredible….It’s the same way here in the U.S.. Who woulda thunk it, Gandalf didn’t win the Battle of Britian against the Japanese? Comeon…..
Or my all time favorite….
Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!……
No!!
O.P.Well, you learn something new every day. A little research shows me that a number of RNZAF Douglas Dauntlesses were indeed sold off for scrap it seems. Theye were:
SBD-3 All these except NZ5018 sold to scrap merchant Mr. J. Edwards from RNZAF Hobsonville on 1 March 1948
NZ5001 (formerly NZ206)
NZ5002 (formerly NZ206)
NZ5005 (formerly NZ209)
NZ5008 thru to NZ5017 (formerly NZ212 – NZ221)NZ5018 (formerly NZ222, latterly INST92) probably sold in the Nelson/Marlborough region in 1951, buyer unknown)
SBD-4
NZ5019 thru to NZ5024 (sold to J. Edwards from Hobsonville on 1 Mar 1948)
NZ5026 and NZ5027 (sold as above)NOTES
– Parts of NZ5021 were stored in New Zealand for some years but are now believed to have been exported.
– No record of the disposal exists for NZ5025
– All the others were either crashed, shot down or returned tothe US Marine Corps it seemsSource http://www.adf-serials.com/nz-serials/nz205.shtml
So yes, there is a wide scope there for a few to have been snapped up from Mr Edwards and stashed away. Wow, you’ve got me really wondering now… where are these mysterious Dauntlesses…??
Dave, This is awesome news! It’s even more than I thought. Great site. Thats got me thinking that a lot of those USMC SBD’s still remain on those islands. I’ll be looking at the adf-serials site for the next couple of days now. Thanks again Dave.
O.P.Hi again Dave, Rob!
I know it’s probably irrational, but there was someone from NZ wanting SBD parts on Barnstormers for the past two years. I don’t remember the name Ross Jowitt, I’m pretty sure I would have remembered the name. I did google, and everything else, the wanted ad. It was listed as a local aviation company in NZ. I got the feeling it was an FBO. I got nothing. I know this doesn’t help none, But your post even convinces me more that there are multiple unaacounted for SBD’s in New Zealand.
The ads were from NZ. I would remember the name Ross Jowitt. Maybe he posted them without his name, and just his business name.
I’m a true believer, it’s there, they’re there. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
I’ll write the story myself……
August 22, 2006
Guadalupe DeLaLuca, writer
Christchurch Daily Journal
“Millionare! You’re kidding” say’s Maggie Smithers of East Hampfordshiresteadham. “Bob (Robert Smithers) , bought these planes for the spraying business in the 50’s” say’s Mrs Smithers. The business went under,But the three WWII dive bombers went into the barn on the Smither’s farm. “This is a significant find for the warbird community, and for Historical ,Wartime ,New Zealand Aviation” , says Dave Homewood of the………..
Thanks for all of the info Dave! If you or Rob have pics of Mr Jowitt’s SBD, please post them.
There’s at least one being restored by a private individual other than Mr Jowitt.
O.P.By SBD’s do you mean Douglas Dauntless’s? If so, I’m curious to know where in NZ and Aussie these are. I know of two in NZ – both ex-RNZAF. One is at the RNZAF Museum and is as recovered from a crash site. The other was with Ross Jowitt in Auckland apparently but I have never seen a photo or anything confirming its existence. I doubt that it is complete either.
Have you any further info? Cheers.
Hi Dave!
SBD’s/Dauntlesses it is! I think the feeling comes from being a complete Barnstormers addict for the past couple of years (http://www.barnstormers.com). I used to see a ton of “Wanteds” for parts, for SBD’s, originating from NZ on there, and reading jbaughers site (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/navyserials.html). The Warbirds Resource Group only has U.S. based SBD’s on it (if you have pics and info of the NZ SBD’s, please forward it to Scott Rose at the WRG so they can get on the list). I think there are several, generally, unaccounted for SBD’s being restored in private hands in NZ. In the context of the original question “What would you import?”, I think a giant pile of money would flush out three or four more SBD’s in NZ and or AUS. I think it would kinda be like the Corsairs,P40’s,Sea Fury’s,Mustang’s,and even P-38’s, that have come out of NZ,AUS,PNG. Once a significant amout of interest, monetary interest, is showed in them, a number of “Surprising” finds are going to find their way to the public eye. I think your info is better than mine(please share :)). I love that plane. I’ve been thinking of taking a ride on the POF Dauntless for awhile, now that its back in the forefront of my skull, I’ll have to do it soon.
O.P.In Air Classics, April 2004,There’s a BF 109E project in the warbird report section, pulled from a russian lake, it looks beautiful, very intact,it’s in England and for sale, I would want that. I wonder how much is wanted for it.
There seems to be a whole lot of SBD’s in New Zealand and Australia, I’d go for one of those. I would also go for the Vietnamese Skyraiders, Bearcats, L19’s, and a couple three helicopters. Lastly, maybe a five year, all access, dig permit at Clark AFB Phillipines.
Oh yea! Almost forgot. I’d try to get an IL2 project from Russia or China. I don’t think there are any flying in the US, maybe not in the world, I’m not even sure there is an IL2 in the US in any condition.
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