Geoff_BI rather doubt the USAF would be allowed to mention possible F-35 cuts at the present, with an election due and still a budget deficit to resolve there could be still some political or financial impact on the F-35 program.
I suspect the US DoD are looking to get a definative production unit price out of LM before they start talking cuts, as so far its just deferred orders. The US govt would be unwilling to start making cuts now as that would effect the price talks with LM before a should cost price is agreed, plus any serious cuts may trigger their exisiting overseas partners to review their orders and possibly consider cheaper alternatives to complement or replace their planned F-35 purchase.
Geoff_BYeah, and that should kill all notion of USAF/USN/USM procuring any new F-15E/C/SE or SH as interim units.
Why should it ?, the F-35 still has a long way to go to enter service and could still encounter serious delays, plus the US still has to resolve its overall budget crisis probably after the election so its still a little too early to say statements like that
Geoff_BSo from this article anyone have any thoughts on what form the RN future AEW will take?
Well they have the Merlin conversion or possibly adapted fit Merlin to the unrefitted HMA1 as a stop gap cheap measure to replace the Seakings.
It does sound like they may be after a more robust solution possibly in the form of fixed wing Hawkeye if the cooperation agreements play out to the end of the decade, otherwise some form of unmanned solution might be in the long term wish list.
The tone they are taking does make it appear the MSAC solution has become a little less set in stone since the switch to CATOBAR and the new cooperation deals opend up more options for them. Looks like it will be one for SDSR-2015 however
Geoff_BShouldn’t discussions about Rafale be in the Rafale thread or the Indian MMRC threads, this one is about the UK possibly considering a stopgap aircraft should the F-35C fail to be available in the numbers required for 2020 ?
Geoff_BWhilst the original article has been discredited and debunked, due to coming from 2nd hand information and the focus came over as switching from F-35C to an alternative i do believe the MoD was actually voicing concern over the slowdown of the F-35 program for the coming years having a knock on delay to the delivery and in-service dates of the F-35C in UK service.
Thus they are investigating the possibility of a stop gap solution for the RN to allow them to work up and bring into service the CATOBAR CVF without being hamstrung by the lack of available F-35C.
Personally i think they may be able to lease a number of F-18 E/F from the US, to form up a squadron for FAA use supported from the US much in the same way the Predators and Airseeker RC-135W are done. These would remain in service untill sufficent F-35C have been delivered to allow the FAA to form a Squadron. Of course alot depends on how the US/UK Carrier Cooperation deal is developed in the coming years and how the F-35 program fairs in that time period.
The UK are scheduled to decide on their initial F-35C numbers and in service date either next year or the year after, by which time they should have a clearer idea of the program progress, issues, delivery schedule and of course cost all of which COULD prompt the choice of the F-35C for JCA to be reconsidered (Unlikley, unless LM encounter any more FUBAR issues which have a major impact on the program !).
Should the worst happen then they would probably see about an off-the shelf interim JCA solution, but if Rafale is considered then the French would have to procure something British of similiar value to be politically acceptable. Should it be Super Hornet then no doubt the UK would angle for a piece of the NGAD program as its eventual follow on.
Geoff_B£200million is nothing the last report I read is that the ceiling price for the T26 is £450 million.
While I would agree that ship in the picture looks considerably smaller and would cost around that amount (£200 million). It appears to only have one phalanx CIWS, no mission bay under the flight deck, smaller hanger and flight deck and no Harpoon SSM.
Its a bit hard to tell from one small picture !!!, i agree on the lack of mission bay, but you cant see whats behind those stealth sides and we dont know whats on the platforms sticking out from the hanger sides.
We’re just going to have to await more data
Geoff_BHi Jonesy
Liegers blog mentioned there was a BAE conference on the Type 26 today so could well be the latest incarnation rather than an earlier one.
That image does look a bit different with two bays on the ship sides and it appears the flight deck is lower which could mean the rear bay under the hanger has gone. I know that some of those more in the know have said the current design is quite different to what we have seen to dat and some of the features had changed.
I guess we’ll have to await on feedback to slip out from this conference.
Geoff
Geoff_BThe CVF isn’t going to be ready until what, 2020?
Even if the UK ordered SH tomorrow they wouldn’t be complete for several years as they have to come after USN deliveries. There wouldn’t be a huge gap between having the SH squadrons up and running and the F-35s arriving in numbers, only to have to dump the SH when it is just reaching operational capability. The CVF is bound to be delayed, giving it plenty of time for us to get the F-35Cs in numbers.
It simply isn’t worth going through all the pilot and ground crew training, setting up a logistics and support structure for an aircraft we would only use for a few years at best, let alone the money involved.
Actually it wouldn’t take that long probably a couple of years, don’t forget this is an interim aircraft and we will do as we have done with the Airseeker and use US resources to train & support them. I expect them to be operational fairly quickly and ready for use in the later half of this decade.
Yes we will have F-35C deliveries but as production is cut down to 29 per year of all types rising to 44 in 2017 we just won’t have enough aircraft to form our first RAF unit till 2020 at the earliest and certainly wont have enough to work up and operate from CVF till the middle of the next decade at best (There are alot of F-35 partners all in desperate need of their aircraft from one sole production source, thats when they are starting to see the end of the next decade to meet our initial requirement !!)
Geoff_BPlease note the title say interim aircraft, aka as per the RAAF an interim aircraft is procurred as a stopgap. You need to take into account various news snippets over the past few months to put this in the correct context especially the recent developments with the US.
1. A CVF carrier will be ready in CATOBAR format in 2020 and will require an airgroup of sorts.
2. The UK has just signed a carrier cooperation deal with the US last week, where Hammond also got an update on the F-35C.
3. There is an issue with the tailhook on the F-35C which hopefully a revision to the hook and damper will resolove in the next 6 mths otherwise its will be a more involved redesign.
4. The US yesterday indicated they are purging back JSF orders between 2013 and 2017 by 179 aircraft.This means the UK will be lucky to have 6 aircraft in service by 2020 rather than 18 and it may take till 2029 to fulfill the complete complement of aircraft as most partners will be desperate for their own F-35’s by then.
5. This would be an interim aircraft, it won’t be a direct alternative to the F-35C, this would be a Carrier type we can use to form at least a squadron of FAA aircraft which can be used untill it can be replaced by F-35C.
I suspect the idea is to possibly look to bring the aircraft into service after 2015 SDSR (may have order/arrange before this date depending on the production status of the Rhino/Rafale. Get a FAA unit up to speed and have them operate from either a US or French CVN till 2019/20 then use that unit to get the CVF certifide and operational.
It gives them the capability, covers the F-35C shortfall expected at the start of the next decade and offers a possible tanker solution/growler option once the F-35C is in service.
Of course should the F-35C fail to meet requirements it gives them breathing space.
Geoff_BFrance will have more serious budget problems in the future than Germany or UK.. Record number of old people, record unemployment rate and the general health system in France is eating up the budget more than in any other country in Europe.
In France the people can still retire at the age of 60 ! the same is 65 in Germany today and 67 very soon and France has one of the highest life expectancies in Europe. France has no other choice than cutting the defence spending dramatically in the coming years.
Yeap your also forgetting they will have to help carry the weaker Eurozone states as Germany will soon get miffed if they think they alone are proping up the rest of Europe.
France like the US will have to address their budgets after the elections, as neither President is strong enough to do so before facing the public vote.
And its not going to be nice when they finally do start to seriously look to bring their budgets under control.
Geoff_BI think that some sort of mixed JSF and Super Hornet force is most likely for the RAAF anyway. That final batch of 25 is looking most likely for the chop, especially if the cost continues to blow out. Then we can just continue with the Super Hornets and maybe the Growler until something else is ready. A UCAV perhaps.
Possibly the USN NGAD which is intended to replace the Super Hornet which could be a mixed maned/drone solution.
BTW Even Burbage has down played the F-35 super solution by saying its a strike fighter and not an interceptor when down playing the transonic thrust issue last week.
Geoff_BHow can you tell what they were at 9pm at night as its been dark for a few hours ?
Geoff_BCF-2 is the first with the redesigned tail hook. F-35B has been to Mach 1.4 and initial weapon separation trials due this year. They are currently using Block 1A and 1B software with Block 2 due late 2012.
Nope this is what Kelly said about the F-35C:-
Kelly says he also expects to begin testing a redesigned tailhook for the F-35C in the second half of the year. The current design encountered problems last year when officials attempted rolling tests and the tailhook skipped over the wire owing to its weight and a problem with the dampening system. CF-3 will be the first test aircraft to have the new tailhook installed.
Its CF-3 and being tested in the 2nd half of the year rather than the 2nd Qtr Burbage said earlier in the week. So that means we will have to wait another 6 mths or more to discover if the the revised hook will do the trick or a more involved redesign is needed :confused:.
Any ideas when the UK is supposed to formally decide and order its first batch of F-35C for JCA as pretty sure its coming up ?
Geoff_BDefense Secretary Leon Panetta has lifted the F-35B Probation :-
“The Stovl variant has made – I believe and all of us believe – sufficient progress so as of today I am lifting the Stovl probation.”
Announced at Pax River today
Geoff_BOhh Cheers for that Eagle, nicely illustrates whats happening with regard the wires
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