Sameer,

Pak Thunder is exactly right. The issue here is not one of Indian niaivete its one of the IN having to accept what theyre given by their poltical leadership.

Given the time wasted on acquiring a replacement for Vikrant, all the early 90’s negotiations with Bazan and DCN etc, Gorshkov politically became an important project for the continued regional superpower status of the IN and for the prestige of India in general. A great deal of time and effort was expended on the contract definition and negotiation. Political expediency would not have been served by the GoI pulling out of the deal at any late stage as it would have left the IN back at square one nearly a decade and a half after the first studies were undertaken for the replacement of Vikrant.

In that context the fact that Gorshkov would give the IN some form of aviation capability, by this time to replace Viraat AS WELL as Vikrant, could easily have been viewed as more significant than specific capabilities and operational efficiencies of the vessel itself. Simply put it was not necessary for Gorshkov to be a good carrier more that it just needs to be an operational carrier.

Viewed in that light how disruptive would it have been to publically release the fact that the carrier was in a poor materiel condition?. The very fact that so much of the carrier needs replacement 70-80% is indicative of the real state of it anyway.

sometimes I wonder that India should’ve picked up the Yak-141 production plans. It may have costed more but they’d have a modern supersonic aircraft to both replace their Harriers as well as giving more flexibility in the type of ships they can purchase

theres probably others, but i cant remember off the top of my head, and to be blunt, i consider it to be a waste of time to go check up for u. :rolleyes:

also, i never said vietnam was copying china, just pointing out the uncanny pattern of purchases the two countries have made over the last decade. the rest was just ur assumptions. :rolleyes:

Flip

vietnam seems to be mirrowing china’s military aviation purchases quite exactly.

flop

– china buys Su27Sk, not too long after, vietnam buys same ac.

– china buys Su27UB trainers, not long after vietnam follows suit.

– china buys Su30MKK, soon vietnam follows suit.

– china buys Su30MK2, vietnam is about to, or already have bought the same ac.

lol, once again Mr hamburger dazzles us with his maturity and depth of argument. :rolleyes:

aside from the cheap shots, what other point have u made? :rolleyes:

if u think u got a point that can stand up to scrutiny, then lets hear it. because if u think that trying to keeping things vague so u cant be proven wrong is going to work, then u really should get out more. 😎

please, you should really stop changing the subject about me and try to prove your claim that you keep trying to avoid.

So how is Vietnam mimicing Chinese arms procurement other than the Su-3X? :rolleyes:

can’t do it can you.

yeah i got it. just another person with too much time to waste. :rolleyes:

if u got a valid point to make, make it. trying to be ‘subtil’ when there is no point to be make only means u are looking for an excuse to grind an axe. :rolleyes:

no axe to grind except for the fact that you’re avoiding your own ignorance and lack of logic in your statements, but that’s hardly surprising eh 😉

Especially since you couldn’t counter my arguements..

so mr poo poo, what else has Vietnam bought that mimics Chinese acquisition hmmm? 😎 by your logic, Indonesia is also mimicing Chinese acquisition too

I guess someone had earlier said abt the decayed Hull, and put to doubt the several rounds of Indian Naval delegation visit that cleared the Gorshkov hull!

BTW the contract did not add that the guns wud be removed during the handover!. It just mentioned that it wud be cleaned up from inside.

c’mon , thats still is not a reason to get rolling from the point of fall. Get up and move ahead, I consider that as fair and in tune with guyts with a backbone.

can u give me the litrature abt the service book of the Gorshy ??? ….. abt the maintaiance levels etc etc ….

neither did the Indian Navy doubted except for the dollar fundeed Indian mediawho gets most of their stuffs from their western daddies.

An earlier report posted says, its a progressing a bit ahead of time. Hope thats for making it enter service at the specified date.

any vessel of its size will come along with its operational cost and thats nothing peculiar or isolated ones.

I’m an Indian ……. simple English plzzzzz …..

Jonesy is right, the Indian gov’t was very unwise to purchase an inactive problematic ship that costs heaps to operate and a very likely low service life.

They should’ve invested more money on their own ship, ask Bazan to build something, etc

For me Germany does not even need a new fighter. 72 Makos is all Germany needs for defence. Enough for advanced training and air plocing roles.

don’t put all of your hopes in vaporware :diablo: