It’s still on the to-do list, unfortunately.
My cat is really stupid. I’ve pushed it away from the screen three times already since the song started playing :rolleyes:
That’s a pic i’ve been looking for Phantom – is there any way you could get it to work?
I doubt they are going to trash the Backfire Cs (Tu-22M3s) Maybe the older ones, but the M3s are excellent aircraft..
Ukraine already trashed a fair amount of their of M3’s, and there’s at least one wreck of an M3 at Shaikovka.
Here’s a poor quality pic from the DTRA site.
So why couldnt have they modified the Su-27 airframe for this job from the beggining? It could’ve been a single plane to escort bombers since ithad a long range and it could’ve too tackled otehr bombers and cruise missiles?
Because when the T10 project was launched, there was no need for a striker with the FA. The Su-24 was still perfectly adequate in the doctrine of the day which required a terrain-following aircraft with swing-wings. In fact, the Su-27’s wing makes it less than ideal for low-flying attack missions.
And why couldnt the f-14 settle that requirement?
Because it was Grumman, and the USAF didn’t do Grumman.
I seriously do not like how USSR built 3 twin engined heavy interceptors. Ok somehow I understand the Mig-29 and Su-27 but what was the need for the Mig-31 when the Su-27 could’ve been modified with it’s radar and AAMs and other goodies, to become like the F-14 in the same way.
Different roles: the MiG-31 is a dedicated interceptor, the Su-27 is a heavy air superiority fighter. The differences between these tasks is big enough to warrant these two types, especially (again) during the time both were thought out.
Is there a centralized ‘boneyard’ in Russia ?
Nope. There are several bases where aircraft are put in storage, and even then there are different facilities for operational storage (like the MiG-29s and appearantly even MiG-23/27s at Lipetsk) and actual disposal.
Lifted from the Scramble OrBat at http://www.scramble.nl/ru.htm , some of the Russian storage units. It’s not complete, the Su-24 and Tu-22M are missing for example:
4020 BRS, Lipetsk
MiG-23, MiG-27, MiG-29, MiG-31 (the latter ones are relatively new, those weren’t yet there in 2001).
5501 BRSV, Ostrov (Navy)
Be-12, Su-17, Tu-22M
?? BRS, Step’
MiG-23, although it also disposed of a lot of Su-17s.
4022 AB, Bobrovka
MiG-21, MiG-23
6213 BKhUAT, Engels
Tu-95 (also took care of the Bisons)
2881 TsBRV, Totskoye
Mi-8, Mi-24
714 BRV, Kasimovo
Mi-8, Mi-24
865 BRV, Protasovo
Mi-8, Mi-24
?? BRAT, Chevenki (Orenburg)
Su-25
?? BKhAT, Slavgorod
Su-25
The number of aircraft you can find on any of these bases can differ tremendously: back in 2001, there were in total less than 100 helos in storage at Kasimovo for example, while Lipetsk housed some 300 Floggers and 80 MiG-29s. Also, it often happens that rework plants take care of storage and/or disposal of airframes, like Rzhev for example which did the maintenance and eventual disposal of the Tu-128s.
Didn’t India get some?
Also, how many Tu-22M3s are still in service? Both Long Range and Naval Aviation.
In total 127 are reported to be active, 99 should be in some sort of storage.
REB = ECM. Don’t know the exact letter-for-letter translation, sorry.
Back to the original question:
Useless aircraft:
-1- The B-1B bomber (although hindsight has a lot to do with this). It never really had the payload and range to be a true bombtruck, but for a stand-off missile launcher it had all sorts of useless gizmos. Besides, using the B-1 as a bombtruck is pretty lame if you consider the fact that it was in fact built as a one-mission aircraft so no thought seems to have been given to reloading the Bone.
-2- All subsonic interceptors from the 1950s, especially the rocket-armed ones. Cool as they might have been, there simply was no chance in hell for an F-94C or F-89 to intercept a high-flying Tu-16 or Il-28, let alone shoot it down.
-3- The C-130J. Trying to fit the obese Army of One into the same size fuselage as used by the Defenders of the Free World in the 1950s is just silly. As rightfully ridiculed as the A400M program is, i won’t be surprised all that much if the USAF starts seriously considering that piece of Eurotrash when it realises somewhere in the next decade that those fy-1964 C-130E’s are getting really, really old…
-4- The Myasishchev M4/3M. Cool, but totally useless compared to the Tu-95. Given the tanker role out of mercy, like some other useless aircraft i can think of.
Stupid decisions:
-1- The Valiant/Victor/Vulcan trio. Again, these were whoa cool aircraft but three similar-sized aircraft for the same role in a (relatively) small airforce like the RAF was pure waste. Especially if you consider the pathetic state of the RAF’s air defense/interceptors from the 1950s onward.
-2- Disbanding of the Sukhoi OKB by Stalin in 1949. The original Su-17 could easily have been the world’s first supersonic fighter.
-3- Like Duncan Sandy’s 1957 White Paper, the Khrushchev missile doctrine from the following year. Cancelled and/or limited a lot of interesting aviation projects in the Soviet Union.
-4- No final credit from the Dutch government for Fokker (yeah, i know, that’s government support but all countries do that) when it was trying to overcome the development cost of both the F50 and F100 series of aircraft. Embraer jumped into the gap left by the F100 with their ERJ135/145 series, while i think the F50 series would have provided a more economical utility platform than all those current transport-spinoffs you see nowadays. I admit being totally biased on this one.
The USAF F-4 did briefly have the F-110 designation, but before any real USAF jets were built, the whole designation system was redone, hence the F-4.
That’s what i said. F-110 yes, YF-110 no.
Globalsecurity and a number of other sources gives YF-110 as the USAF-designation for the USAF-flown MiG-21F. There never was an YF-110 Spectre (later F-4C Phantom) since the USAF “prototypes” were simply the F-4Bs, so it was not really a double ID.
And i’m as clueless about the B-52 pic as you are.
Hey, that’s why i put the “…” thingies up there. Aircraft that supposedly never flew with airforce X then?
To revive this thread, and hoping to get the Malaysian Tornado (and Canadian F-14, i know that one’s around as well) up at some point too…
Anyway, here are two pics of the “Aéronavale” Jaguar. While it never actually entered service, it did have the anchors on the French roundel so it definately applies to this thread.
While Egypt did operate Tu-16s, they never got Tu-16R’s. This is a Soviet Navy machine flying in Egyptian markings during the early 1970s.
It’s definately 160149, which has spent most of it’s life with VS-22. In both the 1986 and 1990 cruises it was AC-704. Also, pics of 160149/AC-704 show the Viking as being grey at least in ’91. It got some nose-art during the ’91 Gulf War so it’s not too hard to find pics of it from that year.
So it indeed must have been the Kennedy cruise which started in September 1983 (see http://navysite.de/cvn/cv67deploy.htm ) when this pic was taken. Mind you, Argie dictator Galtieri had resigned only weeks after the Malvinas had become the Falklands again in June 1982. The first democratic elections after the Videla/Galtieri junta were held in October 1983 (president Alfonsin was given the office by the people), just in time for this cruise. Possibly part of the mission of CV-67 for this cruise was to welcome Argentina back in the friendly community of the Free World post-Falklands, although it was later sent to the Med to keep an eye on Lebanon (it got it’s cruise extended because of that) after the barracks of the Marines were blown up.
Conclusion: the pic is from October 1983.
Some more myths:
The Yak-38 was only capable of vertical takeoff, not STOL
Wrong, with the lift engines running and the exhaust nozzles rotated some 45deg, the Forger could make a ‘running start’. Like on the Harrier, STOL takeoffs meant that a bigger payload could be taken up.
The Su-25 is a copied Northrop A-9
Wrong, the Su-25 grew out of the SPB and LSSh studies from the late 1960s, well before the A-9 was presented. Size- and configuration wise, the SPB/LSSh looked more like single-seat Alpha Jets (not presented back then either) than the later A-9.
Tu-22 Blinder and Tu-22M Backfire missile carriers were foremost aimed against US carrier battle groups
Wrong, their main role was to attack land targets as most of these aircraft went to the DA, not the AVMF (the Navy actually never got any Tu-22K missile carriers). The Navy Backfires were far more concerned with attacking convoys and harbours.
And then there were of course the Bomber and Missile Gaps.