ArthurHere you go on the Czechoslovak MiG-19s. Unfortunately the info on the -PM is not complete, but i posted it at Touchdown News (i believe this ends my lurker status 😉 ) so perhaps some responses might follow.
Czechoslovak-built S 105: (MiG-19S license built by Avia at Letnany, just across the road from the Kbely museum for those who know the place)
Batch – Number – c/ns in batch ———- delivered between
0 . . . 13 . . . . . . . 850001 to 850013 . . 24/2/1958 to 26/12/1958
1 . . . 1. . . . . . . . .950101 . . . . . . . . . . . test airframe, with Aero
1 . . . 5. . . . . . . . .950102 to 950106 . . 30/10/1959 to 23/12/1959
2 . . . 20 . . . . . . . 050201 to 050220 . . 23/3/1960 to 30/9/1960
3 . . . 20 . . . . . . . 150301 to 150320 . . 30/11/1960 to 24/2/1961
4 . . . 30 . . . . . . . 150401 to 150430 . . 16/3/1961 to 14/8/1961
5 . . . 15 . . . . . . . 150501 to 150515 . . 25/8/1961 to 29/11/1961
The serial numbers for all of the above are of course the last four
of the c/n
Soviet-built MiG-19s delivered to Czechoslovakia:
Variant – No. – serial numbers in batch — delivered between
MiG-19S . 1 . . .1006 (pattern aircraft?) . . 6/2/1958
MiG-19S . 12. . 0856, 0859, 0868-0870,
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0872, 0876, 0879, 0881,
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0883, 0889, 8100 . . . . . . 3/1/1958 to 27/1/1958
MiG-19P . 26. . 0722, 0724, 0725, 0731,
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0733, 0735, 0737, 0738,
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0740-0746, 0803,
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0805-0807, 0812-0818,
. . . . . . . . . . . . 0825 . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27/1/1958 to 1/4/1958
MiG-19PM. 40? .0817, 0918, 0923,
. . . . . . . . . . . . .0944-0946, 0949,
. . . . . . . . . . . . .1039-1050, 1101-1111,
. . . . . . . . . . . . .1113 + ? . . . . . . . . . . . . .17/11/1959 to 24/2/1961
And yes, it comes from one of those priceless lucky finds in the East. A pretty weird soft-cover book called “Ilustrovaná Historie Letectví”, printed in 1991 with only three huge articles (on the Letov S-328, Bristol Beaufighter and the MiG-19) in of course a pretty crappy quality. I’m still looking around for more info on Czechoslovak license builds. The history book on Aero published a few years ago had full listings of what they had built, but i’m not sure if they had the Avia-license works included with that. Just waiting for the next lucky find i guess – not really a punishment when i’m over there 😉
And i have to agree with you having done the States ‘on time’. Still, the hobby we have is one of missed chances. I remember seeing Belgian and French T-33s fly as a toddler: i could recognise them by their dayglow panels….
ArthurSean,
I stand corrected re the ASCC designators. You believe i start to find those more of a confusing nuisance than the original Soviet designators?
Steve,
Poland only got 19 MiG-19P’s and 14 PM’s in the late 1950s. At first these were deployed with mixed regiments at Mierzecice (ever been at that base when it was still the Polish AMARC? Great sight!) and Krzesiny. When MiG-21F-13s started arriving in numbers all went to the 28PLM at Slupsk. They flew until 1976 with those, i’ve got a few nice pictures somewhere with these MiG-19s on the same flightline as a regiment of Su-15s during a deployment… aaaaah!
Anyway, identified borts for the Polish MiG-19s are:
MiG-19P:
720, 724, 726, 727, 728, 730, 739, 1008, 1011, 1012, 1021, 1024
MiG-19PM:
904, 905, 908, 910, 915, 916, 917
Besides the three preserved ones in Poland (you’re not the only one to have seen them all, obviously 😉 ). A fourth one should be surviving at Swidwin, probably on the ranges. This info (and more, in Polish unfortunately) at http://www.sanko.wroclaw.pl/mig19/ramki_3.html Very informative, including full unit breakdowns and a nice tab with operational MiG-19s throughout the years.
The Czech Avia S.105s were indeed MiG-19S, they built 103 of those (got the full c/n list if you’re interested). In addition, they recieved 13 Soviet-built MiG-19S, 26 MiG-19Ps and 40 MiG-19PMs making a pretty impressive MiG-19 fleet in that country. A lot of these later went to Bulgaria when MiG-21MF’s started arriving. Don’t know if the Soviet-built MiG-19s were called S.105 though.
Phantom,
You’re welcome, and a little bit of both 😀
Don’t worry about not-existing designations being repeated over and over. Lots of cold-war speculation still survives unfortunately, i’m actually glad you posted it so it could be refuted.
As for the Chinese variants, just be glad i left out the J-6.99…
Ken,
Nice pics, as usual. Love the ‘flightline’ pic at Vyskov (with a hacek ^ on top of the S, that would be the correct spelling – sorry for being a smartass).
ArthurOr just go once, and use the spare time to plan a nice route for your rental car to drive from Moscow to Gelendzhik. There are some nice bases in between, if you want me to plot a route for you… 😉
An airshow at Monino would be great though. Definately a totally different atmosphere than Zhukovskii. It just seems incredibly relaxed.
ArthurBurn that list of yours PII, it’s crap. Here’s a more decent one. Only the more or less main production variants, not the proto/test/development/experimental/trials aircraft or other not operationally deployed types.
Izdeliye 59 = MiG-19 = FARMER A.
Three 23mm cannon, short tailfin fillet, ‘old’ tail.
Izdeliye 61 = MiG-19S = FARMER B
Three 30mm cannon, long fillet, RD9B engines, slab tailplane.
Izdeliye 62 = MiG=19P = FARMER C
RP-5 in radar nose, two 30mm cannon in wing root.
Izdeliye 65 = MiG-19PM = FARMER D
RP-2U in radar nose, no cannon, four K-5M/RS-2U missile pylons.
There is no such thing as the MiG-19PF or MiG-19UTI, and there are no designs which would make a chance on such a designation. Absolute dung. The MiG-19SF did exist but only in small numbers, as did the MiG-19R with it’s fuselage gun replaced by a camera. Variants you missed are the MiG-19SV, MiG-19SVK, MiG-19PG, MiG-19PML, MiG-19SU, MiG-19PU and a whole range of SM-designated proto- and trials aircraft. Don’t blame yourself for the latter, as they are pretty obscure (even though the -U series with rocket packs are certainly interesting enough).
The Czechoslovak produced MiG-19s under the designation S.105, and used them as such. The Poles never built the MiG-19, and there is no such thing as the ‘Lim 7’. Poland never recieved all that much Farmers anyway, only the regiment at Slupsk got a bunch of PM’s if i’m not mistaken.
As for the Chinese variants…
J-6, also called J-6A
Initial small-scale license production at Shenyang including kits, identical to the MiG-19P. Never accepted into service.
J-6B
License MiG-19PM built at Nanchang. Poor quality again, but some did make it into service. Basis for the Q-5.
J-6
Revived production of the Chinese FARMER, this time a radarless variant of the J-6/MiG-19P. It has the airframe and engine of the FARMER C, but the nose and armament of the FARMER B, although the latter ASCC is applied.
J-6C
As J-6, but with dragchute housing relocated into a pod under the tail and a few other minor changes.
JZ-6
Recce variant.
JJ-6
Trainer
J-6I
High altitude day interceptor: increased wing chord, two WP-6A turbojets, conical centrebody in the intake. Appearantly only with the underfuselage retained,
J-6II
As J-6I but with the wingroot cannons back in place, but no guns. Two R-3 license missiles only.
J-6III
The three-cannon variant of the J-6I/II, with a moveable intake centrebody.
J-6IV
Attempted all-weather J-6III by Shenyang with two cannons, and lightened airframe and systems. Totally unreliable, tended to break up during flight. Some 400 of this and the J-6IIIC were built, but had to be redesigned and rebuilt to eventually be airworthy.
J-6IIIC
Roughly like the J-6IV, but built by Guizhou.
J-6Xin
Appearant designation for the rebuilt J-6IIIC / J-6IV aircraft as they got accepted into service.
BW-1
FBW testbed.
ArthurNah, there are more plastic Euromonsters. One is at the RAF museum in Hendon now, taking up space which should have been occupied by a real aircraft.
I do have to say the F-35 mockup is far more familiar to me. It has a logbook at least as thick as the 1:1 Eurofighter scale model.
ArthurI don’t know if it’s true for all US SAMs, but the names are actually acronyms. They are pretty horrible, but someone in the Pentagon has thought them up.
HAWK – Homing All the Way Killer
(this one is awful, and it’s an official one too)
PATRIOT – Phased Array TRacking to Intercept Of Target.
(not sure if this one is official)
I think there are more like this, but don’t know of those. Anyone does? They make a perfect waste of brain cells.
ArthurHere’s the military presence currently is at Changi for Asian Aerospace 2004. There is a Rafale and three Strike Eagles, stupidly enough the Typhoon is only present in mock-up form.
– Boeing Company Apache AH-64D Longbow – USA
– Hindustan Aeronautics Limited Dhruv – India
– BAE Systems Hawk 100 – mockup – UK
– Dassault Aviation Rafale B.301 – France
– Eurofighter International Eurofighter Typhoon – mockup -International
– 2 x French Air Force Mirage 2000C – France
– Gripen International Gripen – mockup – Sweden/UK
– Lockheed Martin JSF – mockup – USA
– RAAF F-111C – Australia
– 3 x USAF F-15E Strike Eagle – USA
– 3 x USAF F-16C Fighting Falcon – USA
– 2 x USAF B-1B Lancer – USA
– USAF KC-135 Stratotanker – USA
– IAF Kiran Aerobatics Team 12 x Kiran MK II – India
– IAF Sarang Helicopter Display Team 5 x Dhruv – India
ArthurThen it’s Z3-BAB, a picture of which can be found HERE (Airliners.net pic)
Arthur– – – d o – n o t – f i g h t – y o u r – d e s t i n y – – –
Besides, people from Tupelo can reach great heights when under the guidance of the Dutch. ‘Colonel’ Tom Parker (Elvis’ manager) was actually Andreas van Kuijck from Breda, the Netherlands…
😎
ArthurOriginally posted by Distiller
ANG was never conceded as an offensive air asset except in times of major crises (Korea, Berlin, a little bit SEA) till Clinton loaded them with stategic bombers, tankers and cargoplanes.
I don’t think you can really draw a hard line between the pre- and post-Clinton ANG/AFRes. From what i can tell, the operational task of (especially) the Guards has never been all that much different from the rest of the USAF. I think the main difference is that during the Clinton years, the USAF itself became a far more offensive organisation. Until the late 1980s a considerable part of the ANG was ADCOM, by definition a defensive force. But other combat wings were TAC and deployed as such – i know i loved it when those F-4Ds (SI, Illinois ANG) or A-7D’s hopped over here for a month or two and flew the tiles of the roof.
Combat deployment of ANG combat units preceded the Clinton-era too: the ANG was involved in operation Just Cause (Panama, 1989) with several units: OH with A-7Ds, NY with C-5As, MS with C-130s and of course PA with their EC-130s. The latter were also active during Urgent Fury (never understood why those aren’t regular USAF anyway), and of course during the 1990-1991 Gulf War there were loads of ANG units deployed.
Funny thing is that i don’t recall any of the ANG bomber (or reserve) units ever having been used in anger. And it could well have been worse though. The Bush I administration did strip down the USAF in favour of the ANG to cash in some of the post-CW Peace Dividend, but both a result of this (and the aftermath of the Gulf War, with Provide Comfort and the Southern Fly Zone deployments) the ANG turned into a fully deployable arm, as was used/abused to great effect by the Clinton administration.
Hell, the Bush I government/D!ckey Cheney were even very serious to put the SR-71 in Guards service!
And now there is hardly any difference in deployment frequency compared to active USAF units. The current scheme was not the Air National Guard, or National Guard for that mather, folks signed up for.
I don’t think the difference is that big, but i’m only an outside observer here. Guards (especially ANG) deployments have been taking place for ever, the difference is from what i can tell mostly in the duration of those deployments. ANG F-4C’s were deployed at Ramstein for months during the 1980s when the local unit went from F-4E to F-16C, for example.
But don’t tell the Geilenkirchen KC-135E boys though. Their two-week stays are broken in half because they usually go home for the weekend 🙂
Gone are the days you could call simply the base for a quick afternoon ride.
There is an annoying ‘Safety First’/insurance/paranoia/accountability factor in this too. Rides with the deployed ANG Stratobladders at Geilenkirchen used to be no problem at all, until the 1999 crash here.
The Air Force will continue with the “Expeditionary Forces” concept, those units formerly belonging to the ANG forming the part that stays at home. But if they really do that to the ANG, they also have to restructure AFRES.
Interesting it is perhaps to note that the AFRes is now more or less the same as it used to be until the 1970s: a mostly transport-oriented orientated force acting as a subsidiary to regular transport units. Only in the 1970s and especially throughout the 1980s did it become a full-blown force with complete fighter wings and such.
ArthurWell, if you’re going to check for the surface in a few months, could you check the c/n too 😉 ?
ArthurHappy birthday Ian! Perhaps you’ll have the lucide midlife this year – the break-even point between declining childishness and growing dementia 😉
And cheers!
ArthurHappy birthday Ian! Perhaps you’ll have the lucide midlife this year – the break-even point between declining childishness and growing dementia 😉
And cheers!
ArthurThere is no MiG-19PFM, only the MiG-19P with two NR-30 cannons, and the MiG-19PM with no cannons but rails for four RS-2U missiles.
ArthurYou wouldn’t believe how compact an NH90 is until you’re looking at one from up close. And if it’s parked between a Lynx and a Sea King…
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