No I won’t, because we’ve been through this many times before.
Your attitude shows me, nothing changed on your part…no offense.Manufacturer’s claims are irrelevant, in the sense you think they’re relevant.
No.
What I’m saying is that French pilots may have chosen to use missiles and more than “one on one” type of exercise, if they had anything to say. 😉French pilots?
@cola How would this have changed anything? if missiles where used do you think that The USAF would avoid BVR? So keep talking about favorable conditions for the Raptor but you want to choose the only scenario where the Rafale might have a chance. ( head to head WVR merge). If it was up to me I would have made the french earn the merge like every one else. Perhaps next time if we start the Rafale on the F-22s 6oclock dump 1/2 the Raptors fuel, and give the French full missile load:rolleyes: and the raptors only guns then conditions will be even.
he APG-77’s active aperture antenna offers attractive benefits. The system exhibits a very low radar cross section, supporting the F-22’s stealthy design. Reliability of the all-solid-state system is expected to be substantially better than the already highly reliable F-16 radar, with MTBF predicted at more than 450 hours. AESA life-cycle costs are expected to be significantly lower than those of MSAs. The active arrays on the F-22 should have almost twice the expected life of the airframe.
Northrop Grumman has successfully demonstrated the capability to generate high-resolution, in-flight synthetic aperture radar (SAR) maps. Flight tests, on board a company BAC 1-11 test bed aircraft, have proved that the F-22 fighter’s mission capabilities have expanded to include directly identifying and targeting enemy ground defenses and mobile forces.
The F-22 uses sensors and SAR maps for targeting. remember the passive sensors make it a mini Rivet joint. This alone is enough to provide a firing solution on anything emmitimg.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/an-apg-77.htm
urrently in developmental testing at Edwards Air Force Base (AFB) in California is the new Increment 3.1 upgrade package for the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. This set of upgrades will significantly increase the aircraft’s air-to-ground strike capability. When fielded in 2011, these modifications will enable Block 30 capabilities for the Air Force’s small operational fleet of Raptors. All F-22s presently flying with the United States Air Force (USAF) are fitted with the current Increment 2 package, enabling a fleet-wide Block 20 capability.
Increment 3.1, which is the first of three incremental upgrades programmed for the Raptor, is well into developmental testing and is scheduled to enter its operational test phase with the 422nd Test and Evaluation Squadron (TES) at Nellis AFB, Nevada, sometime next year, says Cara Miller, Deputy Director of F-22 Modernization at the USAF’s F-22 System Program Office (SPO). The completed package, tentatively scheduled to become operational in fiscal year 2011, adds a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) mapping feature along with an Electronic Attack (EA) capability to aircraft, Miller said.
So Aesa and ALQ-94 now and SAR mapping next year.
http://www.usaf-sig.org/index.php/component/content/article/103-f-22a-sharpening-the-raptors-talons
Aviation week gets it wrong about the F-22 and SEAD/DEAD–or is it ACC?
29 Comments Posted by Eric Palmer on June 13, 2010
In the May 31 issue of Aviation Week, on page 24 in a sub-article called “In Line”. There is a statement in it that is wrong.
“No SEAD weapon can now be internally carried or deployed by the F-22″
This needs some serious qualitfications. The article goes on about what would be an uber-expensive “solution” for SEAD/DEAD known as the Joint Dual-Role Air Dominance Missile (JDRADM). This is taking the AMRAAM and making it dual-role to fill in as a mini-HARM. Lets see if daddy can program manage that one into oblivion.
Right now the F-22 is the only aircraft that can penetrate modern air defenses and survive. When I say “modern”, I mean anything not legacy in the form of Iraq 1991, Allied Force 1999 or Iraq 2003. Anything where you may face low band sensors, networks, double-digit SAMs and modern Flankers (or someday the PAK-FA) to fill in the gaps.
Like it or not, a JDAM is SEAD/DEAD and in the case of the F-22 it can get a GBU-32 into effective distance. Super-sonic releases with the GBU-32 tests have shown the F-22 can throw a JDAM almost twice the distance of a normal subsonic release from legacy aircraft
No one said that Raptors can’t score against Rafale. It is expected that it does. The thing is that it doesn’t score nearly as easily as you fanboys would love it to. For an one trick pony like the F-22 that’s quite lagging behind what is claimed. Where are those 150:0 scores, suddenly? 😉
Why do you keep calling the Raptor a 1 trick pony? the Raptor can do A2A + ANG Just as good as any euro-canard can.
The link is from strategypage Iwant to confirm the exercise existed before I start with links.
If in the past Harry Truman and FDR could not defeat the Marine lobby I doubt that Obama could. In the article In the article it mentiond that the marine Lobby isn’t rooted in practicality and reason but in honor and emotion. These are the boys ( now old men ) that took Tarawa and Guadalcanal canal.
Jessmo , not wanted to be rude , but can you read ??
And … are you over 16 years old ?No . Jessmo , you don ‘t need extra output power to upgrade the software ! I was clearly talking about the various radar modes , and not about increasing the power to get more range . Read and try to understand what others are saying before to jump on the keyboard , thank you 😡
They want them earlier than what planned the roadmap , that ‘s all .
??? :confused: I am talking about an AESA JAMMER , not a radar Jessmo , for God sake ! 😡
Done and …done .
Jessmo , beside the Super Hornet , there is NO multirole aircraft in use in the USA who is approaching Rafale F3 ‘s capabilities , none .
In fact , I personally believe that the Rafale is the best operational multirole aircraft today . The second best , I give it to the South Korean F-15K .Cheers .
1. So your saying that the APG-77 cannot uprate as an AESA jammer?
2. How does the fact that the UAE wants the Rafale upgrade before the road map change a thing? If the UAE wanted the planes flown in next week for evaluation would they be avialable in the exact spec the UAE wants?
3. You just contradicted your self! your saying in 1 breath that the upgrades to UAe standards are ready and in another breath your still trumpeting the F3. AS is, the radar is still inferior to a Block 60 F-16. Do I need to get into the lack of targeting pods over the stan? Do we need to discuss Rafeles using binoculars and needing Mirages to lase targets? what can a Rafale do that a block 60 or a F-18E cant? Can rafales USE WCMD and wipe out an entire tank battalion in 1 pass?
It is topical in the context of screaming lynch mobs declaring that the age of marine organic air is over. There is a law in place protecting the marine mission.
I know you’d like me to be banned and censored, but you could at least hide it lol XD. The Marines can refer to the 1947 law requiring them to support marine CAS for over theater concerns.
Btw , I checked and cross checked various data available in the public domain regarding radar range vs. fighter size target .
It is tracking range , not detection range :
French radars like the RDI (M2000-5) , RDY (M2000-9) and PESA RBE2 are rated at around 100-110km , which is similar to the F-16C Block 50/52 (AN/APG-68(V)9/10) radar .
The APG-80 (Block-60) is rated at 130-140km .So , from the Emirati ‘s talk , we can guess that the AESA RBE2 can be rated at 120-130km (10% less) .
Cheers .
It doesn’t matter its still inferior to the best U.S. 4.5 generation fighters radars. Please beat a U.S. 4th generation fighter in performance and then well talk capabilities against the Raptor. Until then this thread is about 5th generation tactics.
Scorpion , you said :
I gave it to you .
Nothing about a “super duper upper radar.”Jessmo , the Emirati don ‘t say that the Aesa RBE2 is a bad radar , they want a better RBE2 . Note the difference .
It seems that the Aesa RBE2 as a range 10% shorter than the APG-80 .
The GMTT / GMTI capability (detection and tracking of moving ground target) is part of the actual roadmap and will be included in the software at a later stage .
Interlacing modes are already implemented and operational . I remind you that the radar is now in low production phase .Regarding SPECTRA , the system has reached the end of the F3 standard and the F4 roadmap is already founded .
From some French pilots , only 2/3 of the total potential is in use today .
For now , the system still use some “analogic” components but will be upgraded fully to “digital” , using latest European MMICs .
SPECTRA is and still is the only AESA jammer worldwide and the system has proven its huge capabilities countless times .
Cheers .
are you sure?
Raptor Radar
F-22 Raptor
Photo courtesy DOD/Air Force Flight Test Center/Judson Brohmer
This F/A-22 is carrying two AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles in its side weapons bays.
The radar system gives the F/A-22 first-look, first-shot, first-kill capability. That means it can see an enemy plane first, fire a missile and destroy the target without the other pilot ever knowing about it.
The AN/APG-77 radar was developed specifically for the F/A-22. It uses an active, electronically scanned antenna array of 2,000 transmitter/receiver modules. The radar provides pilots with detailed information about multiple threats before the adversary’s radar ever detects the F/A-22.
Also, the radar can jam enemy electronics systems and communicate voice and data information over a secure link.
So they have over come the power consumption bottle necks?
I find it odd that less than a year ago the UAE complained about modes not in the rafales radar when these modes where odiously already in development.
Not to mention that the french themselves said that with changes both power and spacing the Squall would be very different from the ones used by the french.
This is obviously based on the assumption, that a) no-one is going to be able to defeat the F-35’s stealth, and that after Israel uses its 20 F-35’s in SEAD/DEAD missions that it can launch an all out air war for 3 -5 days to destroy every single part of the Iranian nuclear programme and survive the economic, military and political consequences.
Personally I think networked SAM sites, ground radars, passive sensor arrays and AWACs systems will mean that Israel will lose one or more F-35’s and if even one pilot is captured then Israel is playing a loosing hand due to the political capital it gives Iran. Does anyone know if the Geneva Convention holds if you are captured during a surprise attack without first declaring war?
I think that basically Iran has worked out that Israel is in a loose-loose position, the Iranian nuclear programme is too big to destroy without totally demolishing their armed forces. As a consequence Israel will either start to see net emigration from Israel due to fact that Iran has nukes, or if they carry-out the massive scale of air strike required to demolish the Iran nuclear programme completely they will turn the entire middle east hostile, and I doubt very much Europe is going to be pleased and the resultant mess (oil shortages, instability in the middle east, possibly several governments collapsing) will cause an economic crisis, which likely will result in the net emigration from Israel due to the economic dire straits of the country.
It will be “interesting” to see how a more assertive China plays things over the next decade, as they have been quietly extending their economic reach in Africa, are a lot more assertive in the Pacific, and have stated they want to expand their economic interests to South America.
But any Iranian retaliation will draw the United states into the fray. This will be the large scale destruction of the Iranian military and its nuke program.
Do you think the U.S. will let Iran block the straights of Hormuz?
Further more S.A. the UAE and a host of other nations in the gulf dislike Iran almost as much as they dislike Israel. and will probably tolerate a Israeli strike. Havent you noticed the build up?
Perhaps a little humility is in order regarding the Rafale.
From the current issue of DSI magazine, in an article called “Awaiting the UAE”:
And about the UAE demand to have a more powerful RBE2 radar, could it answer to some expectations for the Air force?
The Air Force is interested in having a RBE2 with an active antenna. It is now established with the powerful AESA antenna which will equip our tranche 4 Rafale. What the Emirians are calling for is much more complex. They want, in addition to the AESA, to have new functionalities on their Rafale, such as GMTT / GMTI (detection and tracking of moving ground target), interlacing between air/air and air/ground modes, etc.. Even if this is not for us an urgent need, the operational ‘plus’ obtained could nonetheless eventually interest us. However, the key Emirian demand is about the range of the RBE2. And, with the same antenna diameter, the only way to achieve the 10% range increase (compared with the Basic AESA F3 “roadmap”) that wish to obtain the Emirians, is a big boost to the power of the radar.
But more power to the RBE2, could it be a risk to generate serious electromagnetic interference (EMI) with the SPECTRA receptors ?
There is indeed a very real EMI risk to treat. This is the case whenever we want to change aircraft emission systems. There are solutions, obviously, but this will require to reexamine SPECTRA. But the biggest problem we have identified is about electric generation, which could be insufficient. To increase the maximum range of a few nautical miles, we would have to deeply review the electrical generation system of the aircraft.
In short, to conceive what it could be a Rafale-9, that is to say a new aircraft moving away from the similarity you want with french Rafale. The Emirati experts participating in negotiations are well aware of the problem. But they are also used to have very high quality weapons systems. They want to avoid any regression with the Rafale, at least on the radar range, compared to the F-16 Block 60, the Rafale having also many other qualities. The Emirians don?t have AWACS and therefore want – it is a fundamental requirement – that the Rafale can see very far. Beyond the radar, they are showing fairly strong requirements into SPECTRA development with, for example, the expansion of some frequency bands, an increased sensitivity, adding functionalities; in short, they want we push up the current technologies. Of course, to improve the electronic warfare of our Rafale faster than originally planned could be an additional operational advantage for the Air force. However, our current approach is to consolidate the features implemented in SPECTRA, to make them more robust and make it easier for operators and programmers before wanting to go further into addition of new capabilities. The current SPECTRA is working well and even very good. In sum, what separates us, about Spectra, is a matter of timing and calendar [?]. In a more general way, we share the same wishes about capabilities, but with very different maturities calendar sometimes. Budgetary constraints remain a dimensioning factor.
I just learned today of the national security of 1947, that mandated that the Marines have fixed wing assets to take care of marines CAS 1st then theater commitments.
The worst fears of the Navy and the greatest hopes of the Army were not realized by passage of the National Security Act of 1947. The act protected the Marine Corps. The Navy kept its airplanes–and eventually got aircraft carriers for them. The Air Force got its independent status and soaring Cold War budgets for bombers and missiles. The Army suffered continued cutbacks, with the greatest punishment imposed by its five-star hero, Dwight Eisenhower, who as president restructured the Armed Forces for nuclear war.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PBZ/is_3_88/ai_n25432644/?tag=content;col1