sealordlawrenceThey manage to fit all the equipment into a small hull precisely because they have short range & endurance – and don’t ignore the latter. It’s not just distance the ship can sail that matters, but how long it can stay at sea before needing replenishment.
The Formidable class are fine ships, with all the gear needed for C2, but they don’t have – because Singapore doesn’t need or want – the range & endurance the RN wants for C2. To get the range & endurance needed in a Formidable-sized ship, you’d have to sacrifice weapons. That means you turn C2 into a big OPV, like the new Dutch ships, & it stops being C2 & becomes a big C3. To extend the range & still carry the weapons load, you need a bigger ship.
Just to add to your excellent post swerve, the formidables also have a very small crew that I suspect the RN would have difficulty swallowing for operational reasons. Furthermore I suspect that the class is built to asian standards, by which I mean everything is just that little bit smaller like the corvettes for Brunei. The Formidable class is perfect for Singapore but it is another example of a ship being designed and built specifically for one navy.
sealordlawrenceAs regards the ammount of warning we could expect to receive I beg to raise the following point. In a ‘Falklands II’ scenario would the same mistakes be made? The three months warning we had was actually 10+ years but was ignored for over 9 of them as sabre rattling on the part of Argentina. the government attitude was that they’d never dare try anything. When they did try it(successfully) the government was more surprised than the public. Governments do not learn from previous mistakes which is why they cause us to relive history.
The government attitude was entirely justifiable. What people deliberately choose to forget in government bashing on this issue is that Argentina was developing a surface fleet that was completely dependent on the UK. Nobody undertaking a rational foreign policy move procures their fleet from a country that they are about to make their mortal enemy. The invasion of the Falklands had very little to do with the Falklands and everything to do with the Argentine Junta making one last desperate grasp to stay in power.
sealordlawrenceThere are probably a few 688s tied up somewhere due for a refueling. 😉 Also some VLS-equipped Spruances (if they haven’t sunk them all 😡 )
They are specifically interested in Perry’s. Everybody is, cheap second hand European Frigates have virtually run dry and the only things left on the Market are perrys.
sealordlawrenceI have no idea how they could take a simple and cheap concept and turn it into such a mess…………….:eek:
What is simple about LCS? The vessel is anything but, the perpetual mis-understandings about what LCS is and what it is meant to do that litter this forum is the mess.
sealordlawrenceOh well if you want to be childish fine, I tried to engage you but instead you seem to think this is a game where you in your own words “Shot down down all your reasons” believe me you didn’t as anyone can see.
I feel reel pity for you…your clearly a very sad petty person. Your back on my ignore list…I choose to no longer feed a troll. I hope in time the list of people who have you on their ignore list will reach a point where you can no longer spoil this forum. Good bye.
You were asked to support your assertions and you refused, firstly you got the previous thread deleted because you were unable to back up what you claimed and now you have resorted to this when challenged a second time. At no point has anybody said that you are not entitled to an opinion but your reaction when that opinion is justifiably questioned and challenged in a civilised manner is a stain on your character.
sealordlawrenceNo I and others put up good reasons to disprove you in the previous now dead thread.
No you did not, I shot down all your so called ‘reasons’.
Let it go. We disagree its not a game of who is right or wrong. I expressed a speculative opinion which differs from yours. It is highly surprising IN MY opinion, because that differs from your opinion doesn’t make it wrong. Shenzen was unique in the PLAN’s fleet but not particularly more advanced then a number of contempory classes, she actually shared much the same technology. The good will visits were just that good will visits, I don’t think the Chinese government were particularly showing off technology rather flying the flag with a crew and ship selected for the task capable of global tours.
Wrong, they chose the most modern and powerful indigenous unit in the PLAN, over and over again. If you have evidence to the contrary then please post it, it would make a pleasant change from your usual posts.
The general staff of the PLA have never made a big thing of showing off any kind of technology. Quite the reverse they are highly secretative about their procedures and equipment. As I said the 052b and support ship tasked make sense but the deployment of an 052c IN MY OPINION is surprising. I am allowed an opinion am I? I am more then prepared to respect your OPINION why can’t you show any respect for mine?
It is blatantly obvious that they sent the most modern indigenous unit in the PLAN as I have demonstrated on multiple occasions. You are perfectly welcome to your opinion but if choose to post it here you need to be able to defend it and thus far you have failed outright.
sealordlawrenceAgain your seeing a trend where there is no particular trend.
Sending an 052c is an unusual decision.
There is a very obvious trend as I have displayed and the dispatch of an 052C is in no way surprising. Shenzhen was for a very long time the most modern indigenous unit in the PLAN and she undertook the most foreign cruises. Now the new ships are undertaking such ships. The fact is that you can not disprove what I have identified, that is why the above quoted post was so short.
sealordlawrenceThe irony is too good.
Still boring and contributing nothing.
sealordlawrenceThe below is a rough list of the overseas cruises undertaken by Chinese surface combatants in recent years. In many cases these cruises include visits to countries not listed. It goes witout saying that these two classes were the most modern indigenous units in the PLAN that were fully commissioned and worked up and this thus demonstrates the PLAN habit of deploying its most modern indigenous warships on its overseas cruises. The Shenxhen further reinforces this, she has visited 15 countries since joining the PLAN, more than any other unit.
052 Class (Harbin/Quingdao)
1997: First ever PLAN visit to the US
2002: First ever PLAN Global cruise
2006: Visit to Pearl Harbour
2007: First ever PLAN visit to New Zealand
052B Luhai (Shenzhen)
2000: First Chinese goodwill visit to Africa
2001: First PLAN visit to Europe
2002: First planned PLAN visit to Japan cancelled
2003: 37 day cruise to Guam, Brunei and Singapore
2004+: Deep modernization and refit
2007: First PLAN visit to Japan
With this new anti-piracy mission the PLAN is once again deploying its most modern indigenous units overseas thus continuing the trend and furthering the apparent development of the South Sea Fleet as both the premier user of indigenous ships and systems and the primary power projection force in the PLAN.
sealordlawrence0 quotes, 0 evidence. Performing according to expected standards. 😀 Well done, lawrence.
Twisting words around isn’t going to make you look like a superstar to anyone.
Boring, you have contributed nothing………again.
sealordlawrenceDue to the previous thread being derailed I have deleted and started again.:mad:
This a thread to discuss the PLAN’s deployment in anti piracy operations. I have also disabled “smilies” due to them being used childishly.
Play nice people…
Dude funny mistake, disabling smiles and then using one in your own post! lol!
sealordlawrenceOh so not Kh-42, what are you talking about then?
Kh-41, dont make me dig up the thread.
Unless you can quote me, which you can’t, (because I never said it and you are lying), you can never prove I suggested the old Bear was in active service.
Yes you did.
And your common sense was applauded by no one but yourself. A self made Nobel prize winner here. 😀
When you post something of worth on this forum you will be taken seriously, but you are a very long way from that.
sealordlawrenceHurrah, more pissing contests…. 🙁
Perfectly willing to avoid them but dionis seems unable to help himself.
sealordlawrenceYou have no evidence to show that the Typhoon WILL sustain damage, so your biased US fan boy non sense is as good as my guess.
No my common sense is much more valuable than anything you have ever produced, as is shown by your inability to disprove anything i say.
What exactly is a Kh-42? :confused: Making em up as they come eh lawrence? :rolleyes:
Yawn, your now so desperate (already) that you have had to resort to picking up on typos.:D
I also suggested nothing of the sort of a Bear-G being in service, merely that a Bear-H could likely perform anti-shipping tasks with little issues, which no one here refuted except you, which really, means no one.
You explicitly said that the current in service Bear could carry the Kh-22, which it can not, thus you were proven wrong…….again.
sealordlawrenceI have not replied to your biased non-sense in a while, but this just is too good to ignore!
Car or submarine – I wonder if there’s a difference? This is real ignorance!
The sub was designed to be put into this situation, so no, the internal systems would likely NOT be damaged.
Still too hard to comprehend eh? Or you going to generalize some more about how the sub would be endangered? Unless you have the operating specs of the submarine in front of you, drop it.
So? Te internals are all part of the boat, if you drive something through two metres of ice it will sustain some degree of damage, that damage may even be expected within the vessels design parametres but it will be sustained. As you have no evidence to contrary, just your own fanboy generalisations you have even less position to speak than me given that your credibility has been shot here ever since you claimed that Russia still had Kh-22 firing bears and the Kh-42 was in service.
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