Yeah I forgot about that, but I still think a full joint carrier project where a contract had been signed dividing up workshare and systems/equipment jointly decided and procured may have helped France continue with PA2. It would have made it extremely difficult for the French Navy to specify a higher level of equipment fit that pushed up prices and moved away from what both countries were trying to aim for (ie. keeping costs down) or postpone it. That’s why I still think DCNS have a valid point. But it just wasn’t going to happen like that and would have needed a lot longer timeframe to get to that contract. On top of that, and what I also forgot, concerns were being raised in all three services because they knew other projects and capabilities would be canned to finance PA2. Seems the same concerns are now starting to be raised here.

Blaming Britain is ridiculous, is it also the fault of the UK that the French Navys FREMM order has been slashed to 11 units? Or that the French FREMM’s will have less structural integrity compared to their Italian counterparts?

The French knew what the British were building and on what time frame, the British time frame had already slipped as it was, if the French Navy was too arrogant to stick to something similar that is not the fault of the UK.

This is just politics, it is no coincidence that this was released at about the same time that the decision to agree the Anglo-American defence accords was postponed on the US side. The RAF needs F-35 and so does the navy, it is not going anywhere.

Demand was probably the wrong word to use, but the block “suggestions” that were floated (and allegedly submitted to the MoD with backing from the French government) would have still been quite a hefty amount of work (I think it was about 40 per cent). The DGA had publicly gone on the record that it wasn’t happy with what France was getting out of it industrially and that the original proposals would make PA2 too expensive. On top of that, various other ideas were floated, including joint manufacture of the propulsion systems, and at one stage I believe that construction at St Naizare was actually suggested.

From the British end, it had more than a whiff of the Horizon fiasco. Yes, it probably would have made economical sense, but it was a non-starter. Besides the UK was already moving on with the project and starting to order lead-in materials from late 2007, including for the propulsion systems. Workshare had already been decided and all that was required was that the manufacturing contract to be signed that was endlessly being delayed. It was pretty obvious that something was going on at France’s end on PA2 by then, long before Sarkozy announced that it was postponed in May 2008.

Personally, I don’t think DCNS (Poimboeuf) have made any silly statements and it is quite a valid point that has been made. A lack of co-operation on the British side (ultimately because it would not let France have what it was asking for in terms of industrial share) made it easier for Sarkozy to postpone PA2.

Anyway, getting back to thread. Maybe cancelling the CVFs and F-35s together would be the better option.

Dude, the french wanted one carrier the British two, they did not deserve 40% workshare. the real reason for PA2’s collapse (beyond the pathetic blame someone else whining) is probably anchored in the excessive equipment fit being sought by the French navy.

If you want a carrier find the money and pay for it, otherwise get over it.

Commone knowledge? U cannot even find signature of Diesel SSK late alone. They maybe deceiving the other side by creating noise. so stop making any claims.
Amur signature is several times better than Kilo available for export.

You know you dont get replies out of me because of your racially motivated bias and pidgin English so dont bother making your absurd comments in response to me.:mad:

yeah sure u have. We all have

Believe what you like sunshine;)

Until the Seawolf and Virgina boats were introduced i think they on par. We will just have to wait until Borey and Yasen finally get out to sea, and maybe 10 years from now we will read about it. It is meaningless talking about what sub is most silent, neither you or anyone else can prove anything. :rolleyes:

Partially true, but all the wet dreams about super quiet Russian boats bettering Sea Wolfs and Virginias are all based on the absurd, flawed and wrong assertion that seems to have appeared from nowhere that the Victor III equalled or surpassed the 688I. This is simply not the case and has never been so.

Pic looks photoshopped.

Thats because they are artists representations.:rolleyes:

Yeap. The problem is the SIZE of the inaccuracy. When you mix serious analysis with wishes, such a big error arises. 🙂

Now you are clutching at straws.:rolleyes: