sealordlawrenceI have to say this, and it will make Mr Lawrence smile.
I used to be involved with the Scouts as a non uniformed leader, but we had a bit of a non-conformist group, we were always in trouble with the ‘Powers that Be’, as we didn’t exactly abide by their version of the modern Scouting code, ie, no knives, yes, how can you carry out Scoutcraft without a Swiss Army penknife, bloody ridiculous, can’t risk their lives with going out and making bivvies for the night, the list was endless, couldn’t do a bloody thing ended up with the eventual termination of myself and the Leaders involvement with Scouting, it got too ridiculous and a waste of time, apart from the threat of litigation, which did actually happen to us, it was an end to a part of my life caused by outside sources that were just pathetic.
What is amusing is that we went to a Jamboree at Walton on the Naze and as part of their tasks, they had to blast away at clays with a shotgun, this was probably 10 years ago, imagine that, youths given a shotgun at such an age with no previous experience, scouts were obviously considered beyond the pale at the time, but even then I thought it was a bit wierd.
Any Scouters on here, ever kipped on Scaffell Pike with a load of divvies.
I have heard similar stories in the past and if there was no initial safety talk it is rather worrying.
It should be pointed out here that teaching kids how to shoot pheasants will not really give them any skill that would be useful for the kind of shootings that occur in urban areas. There is a world of difference between a double barreled 12 bore and a Berretra 92. The skills to use such weapons (reasonably simple) are available on the streets. Add to that the fact that most shootings occur at very short range and it soon becomes apparent that Mr Tebbits idea would not ill equip the chosen youths at all.
sealordlawrence130-150 mil per year for vik is certainly inflated. Its not going to be more than $ 100 mil. It doesn’t matter if Nimitz costs more to run I had anyway put cavours operating cost at 0, anything more only weakens the cavour. The site replaced and with or, it should be 8 harriers and 12 helis. Thats 20 not 24 that was quoted while Baku carried 30 without any modifications. No matter what spin you try cavour is a over priced mediocre product.
Yes I agree IN should have ordered IAC earlier but if we are going for things in the past they should also have negotiated the gorky deal better and russians should have had the ship inspected by competent managers.
If you are going to keep saying that you need to start providing some form of evidence, thus far the members of this forum have shot you down at every turn.
sealordlawrenceThe 8 JSF figure comes from the fact that the hangar is specified, in full aircraft carrier mode, to park 8 JSF’s.
What that doesnt state is that there is a deck park for an additional 8 JSF’s available. Each space being stated as offering room for 12 choppers instead of the fixed wings.
So its plausible, with deck parking, for Cavour to support an airgroup of 12-14 JSF and 4 Merlin AEW at full surge capacity.
An extremely useful load out. It will be interesting to see what the Vik will actually carry in service, beyond all the nice graphics we have seen so far.
sealordlawrenceErrmm..why?Whats the maximum no. it can carry:confused:
Cavours maximum displacement is greater than that of an invincible.
enrr’s excellent site lists 20-24 with no fixed air wing structure. That is certainly more believable than 8.
sealordlawrenceOne thing I will say is that for a carrier 8 aircraft is kinda very bad.16-20 aircraft isnt very good either but still is much better than 8.With 8 i wouldnt even be able to maintain a 24 hr CAP.
I would take the 8 figure with a pinch of salt for now.
sealordlawrenceYou’ve been told why Vikramaditya will cost far more to run than Cavour, but you still repeat this nonsensical line. Why?
Y’know, I think I’ve sussed you out: if India had bought a conventionally-powered Charles de Gaulle derivative, you’d now be singing its praises & rubbishing the idea that India might have been better off buying that floating scrapyard Gorshkov – which costs less because it’s a battered old hull, being sold for a knock-down price instead of being scrapped, so that India would buy aircraft to fly off it. :diablo:
Given the way the nationalistic c**p falls around here there is a certain irony to the fact that two of Gorshkovs sisters are now museums in China whilst the larger, better designed and potentially more capable Varyag could well be in service (of one form or another) before the Vik.:D
sealordlawrenceThe carrier can carry less fighters still more than two times costly……what we can say more!!!! 😮
No we certainly can not say that.
sealordlawrenceAircraft carriers are not combat ships like DDG, FFG etc. The carrier that can carry more aircraft will be much more capable than the smaller one. The Gorshkov will cost less to operate than Cvour! But still price of Cavour (though smaller) is more than two times!!!! 😉
You really are living in a fantasy land, the ex Gorshkov cheaper to operate than the new build Cavour…….absolute dream world of the highest order.
sealordlawrenceYeah sure, wasn’t it you who said CVF would very likely be cancelled or hugely delayed? The budget will have to tweaked but it won’t be a “bloodbath”.
Well, Rosyth Dockyard is getting it’s upgrade, have a guess why?
a) Because they like spending money
b) Because Rosyth is the designated CVF assembly site
I never it would likely be canceled just that the prospect should not be ruled out yet.
There is a defence review due out in the spring, government finances are very tight and the UK is supporting a 7000 strong army in very tough operations in Afghanistan……….work it out for yourself.
sealordlawrenceDoes anyone know the dry thrust of the 117S? I seem to remember 8500 to 9000kg, but I could be mistaken.
What is the projected thrust development curve for this engine? I assume now that the original AL-41 is now dead? I’m talking of the original for the MFI, not the mooted AL-31 with AL-41 tech. Or will it make a later appearance for the Su-34 and later model PAK-FA’s? It was, afterall, supposed to be interchangeable with the baseline AL-31 was it not?
No, the original AL-41 was significantly larger than the AL-31.
sealordlawrence‘Heavy losses’ are a bit about a myth. In ‘stan, only 16 Mi-24s were lost with the option of few more for the unidentified.. Hardly heavy losses for an 8-year war. From Soviet types it was the Mi-8 that took most beating (45-55). Far less than 271 Cobras or 3305 killed Hueys over Nam, but Stan was a quite less intensive conflict, I agree.
Until 1986, Mi-24s were shot down roughly at a rate one per year. Since 86 the figure doubled and the worst year was 1988 with five Hinds down. I think it had pretty much to do with Stingers rather than small arms fire.
RPG’s fired from above.
The point stands.
sealordlawrenceWell this seems to have turned into one of those lovely little east versus west threads……..you know its gone bad when star49 starts posting.
Just a few points, Russian equipment was designed for a war with NATO and on the opposite side of the spectrum NATO equipment was designed for a war with the SU/WP. The only real way to find out which was best would be to got back to 1989 and start WW3……..I would not advice it myself.
All this does however create some scenarios which are not as demonstrative as people like to think they are. My personal favorite example is attack helos. In Afghanistan the Hind took pretty heavy casualties, not becouse it was bad but becouse it was doing a job that it was not intended to do. The same applies to the Apache in the WOT. These helos were meant to stand off and fire ATGM’s at massed tank formations whilst operating at low level. The were not meant to get in close against insurgents, frequently within small arms range. It is hardly surprising that Apaches and Hind’s get beaten up pretty bad doing COIN work. However there are people here who say that becouse the Apache suffered casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan it is a bad helicopter, that is not the case at all, it is a helicopter that gets put in the line of fire just as the Hind was in Afghanistan.
sealordlawrenceIIRC there is a picture floating around of a trials Tornado with eight 1000lb bombers under the fuselage arranged in pairs.
sealordlawrenceThat is your opinion.
Others may have, and may express, different views from your own.
Which is a good thing, isn’t it?
It most certainly is, however we must ensure that that right remains and Islam (amongst others) is hardly well known for its tolerance in this area.
sealordlawrenceThat is your opinion.
Others may have, and may express, different views from your own.
Which is a good thing, isn’t it?
It most certainly is, however we must ensure that that right remains and Islam (amongst others) is hardly well known for its tolerance in this area.
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