I seem to be the only one asking, but I’ll keep bringing it up in the hopes of something coming about.
The issue of the Super Etendards off the CdG intrigues me so if anyone has any information on their use (mission profiles, payloads, targets, etc.) or even photos that would be appreciated.
Not much info out there. Here’s all I got – seems like 1x GBU-49, 1x 625L wing tank, 1x 600L belly tank, and 2x ECM pods. (Sort of strange that they’d go for 2x small tanks instead of 1x 1,100L underwing tank – but the picture isn’t great so maybe it’s actually a 1,100L tank).

You’re skirting around the issue. The Typhoons are performing air defense against WHAT? :p Come on man, it’s a valid question.
😮
That bring back capability is seriously not impressive. SCALP is only 1250kg:(
Add at least one ton of fuel & one ton of other stores (4 AAMs, empty drop tanks etc), and that’s over 3 tons of bring back. In addition, Rafale’s max bring back has been demonstrated to be ~5.4 tons (15.7t landing weight), so there may be other explanations for the single SCALP configuration (for example, 2 SCALPs would bring take-off weight to 22.2t – right around Rafale’s max launch weight on CdG).
Typhoon didn’t do strike because the RAF has a larger number of dedicated strikers in the Tornado available than it has Typhoons. Come on, this was gone over a page or two back, so why be so disingenuous? :rolleyes:
I don’t really want to wade into this fight, but at this stage it’s pretty clear that the only aircraft still flying pure CAP in Libya are the ones that either can’t drop bombs (Mirage 2000-5) or from countries that have political restrictions (Qatar, Italy). Every other nation is flying muti-role interdiction sorties with F-16s, Rafales etc. because enforcing the no-fly-zone is simply not needed anymore.
AFAIK, that leaves the RAF’s Typhoons as the only glaring exception of a country with “multirole” aircraft that aren’t being used as such. So it’s not entirely disingenuous for some of us to ask why.
Somewhere in the Mediterranean
Pics just released of operations on Charles de Gaulle. Lots of noteworthy details for carrier nerds like me: 😉
It’s also extremely unusual for the rather secretive French MoD to provide such detailed high res pics, which makes it doubly interesting.
Notice the very dirty deck – CdG’s been at sea for 10 out of the past 18 months, and the hard running shows.
(the very visible rust stains on her hull raised some murmurs when she returned to port from her previous deployment a month ago)
The bow catapult seems to be preferred for E-2C launches, but I’ve never quite figured out why (it requires moving aircraft in the bow deck park)
Notice also the ladders used to access the Rafales’ cockpits. That’s unusual, because Dassault designed an integrated retractable ladder. Maybe it’s not practical?
1st cruise missile strike in French history
The bow deck park is rarely used (not enough aircraft to put aboard CdG), so this is the first time I’ve seen a pic of 4 Rafales parked there.
Reconnaissance/air interdiction mission. Wonder why both Rafales carry reconnaissance pods? Did they split up to cover different targets?
It’s extremely unusual to see such a detailed pic of CdG’s hangar. Looking aft from the front elevator, 2 Rafales & one Hawkeye in the forward
hangar bay, with the other Hawkeye (and the top of 2 Caracal rotor hubs) visible in the rear hangar bay behind the open fire door.
Looking aft from the rear elevator. CdG recently started using robotic aircraft tugs (see http://www.mototok.com/military.html for a great video),
which presumably has greatly reduced the need for this kind of manual maneuvering of aircraft into tight spaces.
Looking forward from the forward elevator. This venerable 46-year old 😮 Alouette III soldiers on for day-time plane guard duties…
…and is dwarfed by the Puma (edit: not Caracal as initially stated) CSAR helo behind her. )

The mission has barely started… changing engines already? :confused:
(Notice the fire door behind has been closed and the cumbersome green storage container for a spare M88 engine – some of which have to be stored on deck next to the island because they take up too much space in the hangar)
Off on a recon mission. Can you spot the Rafale M’s unique jump strut in action? (If not, see the next picture)
Jump strut retracted. Compare the distance between the launch bar and the wheels to the pic above.
(Large pics – click on links) Notice the crowded deck park ahead of the landing Hawkeye.
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicod/storage/images/base-de-medias/images/operations/autres-operations/harmattan/110321-libye-preparation-du-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle/preparation-du-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle-2/1128120-2-fre-FR/preparation-du-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle-2.jpg
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/var/dicod/storage/images/base-de-medias/images/operations/autres-operations/harmattan/110321-libye-preparation-du-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle/preparation-du-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle-3/1128125-2-fre-FR/preparation-du-porte-avions-charles-de-gaulle-3.jpg
Good shot of the “Super Nounou” buddy refueling configuration – 2x 2,000L & 2x 1,250L tanks underwing, with centreline buddy pod

A Caracal practices CSAR ops from the Lafayette class frigate escorting CdG. Presumably the stealth frigate would be the one to
close in on the coast if needed to extend the helo’s range?
Let’s not forget the escorts! Forbin at high speed. Rather wet (and ugly) isn’t she?
Mirage III 0…did not use an Avon engine.
I was referring to the Mirage IIIO prototype which flew with the Avon 300 series engine. The RAAF decided to stick with the vanilla Atar 9C for production IIIOs, partly due to cost and partly because Snecma promised the option to retrofit an uprated Atar 9K, which turned out to be a mirage (gratuitious pun intended) since the 9K was only fitted on Mirage 50s, and even then only in 1969.
I don’t have specific data on the Avon Mirage IIIO, but dynamic performance and range were said to have improved substantially. Not sure if there were any negative CoG impacts from the additional 300kg engine weight – the Avon was longer than the Atar, which is the opposite of the J79 which powered the Kfir (Avon:~270-290in, Atar: 232-247in?, J79: 208in). Barring any huge CoG issues, seems like the Avon Mirage should have performed slightly better than Draken, due to higher finesse and better thrust-to-weight.
Seems to me that what “made” the F-104G was 1) the superb J79 engine and 2) the advanced avionics (especially INS & terrain following for all-weather low-level strike). The Crusader didn’t have either.
The only contemporary engine that could compete with the J79 was the Avon RB.146 Mk 300 series fitted to the EE Lightning and Saab Draken. Wonder which was the better choice?
I’m more skeptical of the F-104’s tiny trapezoid wing configuration. For starters, it’s never been repeated elsewhere. Also, looking at the alternatives, was performance in air-to-air really superior? (For low level strike, the high wing loading was certainly useful) Looking just at the platform, IMHO the following platforms seem to have been just as effective in air-to-air as the F-104 (i.e. offered a solid mix of performance in climb / acceleration / instantaneous or sustained turn performance):
– Swept-wing & J79 engine: the F11F-1F had equally great performance by all accounts
– Delta wing & Avon engine: Mirage IIIO, reportedly a real hot-rod
– Double delta wing & Avon engine: Draken, slightly penalized by its large wing which did however enable very low landing speeds
So was the F-104 anything special? Any data on climb / acceleration / turn rates would be welcome.
Rafale can’t operate from Foch at all, which is why they retired her early. They had to add a ramp to the end of the cat to keep it from going into the drink during quals
That’s not true. At least 5 stores configurations were qualified on Foch, including 17.9t and 19.5t air-to-air configurations (“Air-air 2” with 2x 1250L tanks & 6 AAMs and “Air-air 3” with 3x 1250L tanks and 6 AAMs), and configurations with 2,000L tanks to simulate Apache cruise missiles.
Maximum launch weight was stated as “over 18t” (source: Flug Review). How much more, I don’t know (and it depends on wind-over-deck), but it’s likely that the 19.5t configuration needed to be topped up in the air after take-off.
The ramp was only used in the 1994-95 carrier quals, not in the final 1998 quals, so there’s an outside chance that a 19.5t launch weight could be achieved with the ramp and with afterburner (remember, Rafale’s launch weight on Charles de Gaulle was initially stated to be 19.5t, but with experience it was increased to 22.2t by authorizing the use of afterburner during launch).
Apparently Dassault only returned 4 Libyan Mirages to flight-ready status. With 2 F1ED now in Malta, that leaves 2 F1BD two-seaters in Libya.
The two-seaters do not have internal guns, and apparently the rockets are from the original stocks delivered around 1980, which is causing headaches in Malta because they are time-expired and potentially unstable. Seems like the pilots were smart to defect, because the rockets might have blown up in their faces on launch! 😮
I actually intentionally left the mast and weapons in light gray since that makes the mods pop out a bit more. As for the mast shape, not sure what alternative one has? It probably just looks strange because I drew it too smooth – in real life there would be a bunch of small antennas.
Apparently Khadafi woke up one morning convinced that he absolutely needed to have SCALP cruise missiles, to which the French responded by giving him the finger (politely, I’m sure).
Probably the bigger issue is that Khadafi was bargaining for the Rafales like one might bargain for camels, and wasn’t willing to dip into his Swiss bank accounts and petro-dollars to pay for the jets. :p
They look to be in a very good state, then again its common knowledge that the Libyan airforce didn’t heavily use its Mirages
The Libyan Mirages were notoriously poorly maintained and probably spent most of their lives in an unflyable state. Even if they could fly, there were only a handful of trained pilots.
However, 12 of the 38 Mirage F1s were overhauled by Dassault in 2007-2010, returning them to flying status for the tidy sum of €10 million per airframe (the electronics were NOT modernized!). This included training/re-qualifying ~30 pilots and training maintenance crews. These are surely the aircraft the pilots we’re seeing.
So Libya may have just lost one sixth of its air force.
Here you go: OHP Littoral Combat mod
Land/Surface Attack:
1x 127mm Oto-Melara with Vulcano guided ammo
8x Harpoon
AA defense:
32x ESSM radar-guided
11x RAM IR-guided
1x 76mm OTO-Melara gun with Davide guided ammo
ASW: 6x Torpedoes
Electronics:
CEAFAR X-band radar for medium range 3D search & tracking
CEAMOUNT IWI guidance antennas
Sea Giraffe radar for close-in 3D search & tracking

P.S. Apologies for the RAN Kangaroo markings. I was a bit lazy to change some of the details!
And the winner is…
Oto-Melara and its 127mm Vulcano gun! Seems like if Key forum’s members held the purse strings, they’d be selling like hot cakes. 😉
@ AI
Your Type 45 AAW destroyer seems rather unaffordable, though I do agree with the high-low mix of Aster 30 & CAAM. The thing I disagree with is the big gun for naval gunfire support. AAW destroyers should be the last ships in any fleet to carry out this mission – better leave it to a GP or ASW frigate going inshore to drop commandos or snare a sub. At least the frigate has some reasons to go inshore, and is more expendable if things go awry.
@ Wanshan
I like the idea of upgrading the OHPs for littoral combat & ASW. Would be a rational mission if LCS was cancelled (or never invented in the first place). However, why not go for something simpler & cheaper? 64x ESSM is overkill, and APAR is a bit rich especially if it’s only going to serve as a glorified short-range designator. The uprated GTs are a mistake: I’m not even sure you can pack that many HP on a gearbox, and certainly not on a single variable pitch prop. All you’re going to achieve is much higher fuel consumption due to the GTs operating at partial loading (OHPs can do 25kts on one GT & 20,000hp, so pottering around at 15kts on one 40,000+hp LM2500+G4 is going to be a disaster).
So why not go for:
– 8 VLS forward for 32x ESSM (same as Aussie frigates)
– Replace the Mk13 SM-1 launcher with the 127mm Oto-Melara + Vulcano (great idea!)
– Add the 8 Harpoon for land-attack & inshore surface threats (same position as on Taiwanese FFGs)
– Replace Phalanx with SeaRam for 2nd layer IR-guided defense
– Add Davide ammo to the 76mm gun for 2nd layer defense
– If you want modern radars, I’d go for CEA-FAR and CEA-MOUNT for search & guidance. Much more complementary than SMILE + APAR.
Should do the job, me thinks.
Just a question (:diablo:)
What could the actual Typhoon do in A-Stan beside protecting an already “friendly” airspace ?
Can it drop anything or maybe just leaflets written in Arabic to ask the talibans to surrender ?
That’s very disingenuous of you. You know perfectly well that the Typhoon was cleared 2 years ago for the Litening III designation pod and the whole range of 1,000lb bombs in RAF use (dumb/laser/GPS-laser). There are about 45 FGR4 single seaters and 10 T3 two-seaters that are in theory “Afghan ready”.
(If you don’t know, then what remote planet or island have you been living on?)