So you guys made a whole post just to declare your love for each other? That’s sweet, but couldn’t you have done that with some PMs?:)

Originally posted by Sauron
Google

Where in the world do you get this stuff from? The Noam Chomsky commie hand book?

Sauron

Obviously since you are ignorant of the historical facts from the horse’s mouth (CIA), there’s not much point in arguing this further. Funny isn’t it, when you criticize the US you’re automatically a commie. Heck, you don’t even live in the US Sauron.:)

Nope, the freedom of information act’s declassified CIA documents. Really, have a look sometime, I’m not making these things up. And where do you get your lack-of-info from?

Originally posted by Sauron
Hand
Google

The fact that internation communism and it’s clones are mostly defeated, more than justified U.S. foreign policies during the cold war. Imagine what kind of a world it would be like if the U.S. and it’s allies had lost that war.

Millions of deaths caused by the U.S? Are you a fan of that sick ******* Noam Chomsky by any chance?

Its kind of amusing to hear you defend USSR foreign policy. Have you forgotten about:

Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania and the other 14 or so other nations that were invaded and incorporporated into the USSR,

or Poland
East Germany
Czech Republic/Slovakia
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
Albania

Or the many attempted interventions that were made around the worth after 1945 that the U.S. and its allies had to counter?

Perhaps you have overlooked the fact that all of these coutries couldn’t get away fast enough when the USSR folded. Does this give us a clue as to why they did? Unfortunately many of them are still stuggliing with that nightmare. There are lots of demagogues out there.

Sauron

More than justified what the US did? I beg your pardon? Those countries should have been allowed to choose whatever government they wanted, without the US telling them what to do. Even if they had gone with the flawed Communism government, so what, 50 years later they’d be capitalists begging to join NATO.

“Millions of deaths caused by the U.S? Are you a fan of that sick ******* Noam Chomsky by any chance?”

Try reading history for once. So you think it was ok for the US to provide names of thousands of left-leaning Indonesians and their families! to the Indonesian army in 1965? Not only did they provide names of people to kill, they provided arms, supplies, financial and political support that resulted in half a million civilians being killed there? No, I’m not a fan of Noam Chomsky, but sounds like you’re a fan of Stalinistic methods.

You somehow think that life under a puppet dictator supported by American power was somehow better than life under Commie rule. Cmon, they’re both equally evil, and horrible.

Savak killed 13,500 Iranians alone in one year in 1965.

Nicaraguan contras killed thousands of civilians with US weaponry, financial and political support.

Need I mention more? Mobutu, Pinochet, Reza Pehlavi, Arbenz (and later the army generals who took over were continually on the CIA payroll and assisted in killing over 100,000 Guatemalans with US weapons), School of the Americas.

“Imagine what kind of a world it would be like if the U.S. and it’s allies had lost that war. “

So the end justfies the means then? I guess life isn’t sacred to you.

Those are very nice pics!

“Most of the great powers have been guilty of using influence to change the direction of of foreign governments. You make the U.S. record out to be far worse than it is. While not perfect, compared to the USSR, the U.S. record looks great.

U.S. interventions in Central America were obviously in response to a local power struggle of one sort or another. These struggles would have taken place whether or not the U.S. became involved.”

Compared to the USSR’s domestic record, yeah, the US’s domestic records look great. Compared to the USSR’s foreign policy records, the US foreign policy records look horrible. That is still no justification for the fact that the US was involved in the murder of millions of innocent civilians overseas. E.g. CIA support of Huk suppression, murders in Indonesia in the 50s. You should try reading the CIA documents on their overseas operations sometime. Particularly, Guatemala/Iran were never in response to a ‘local power struggle.’ More like those countries were tired of foreign western powers robbing them blind and instituted some economic nationalizing reforms that made some US run companies angry, who then begged the various US administrations to intervene based on trumped up charges of communist involvement.

The US has used its military overseas to influence political matters over 200 times since the end of WWII, and that’s not including the military conflicts. There is something seriously wrong with US foreign policy- how about we march up to Canada and overthrow your government and install a dictator to throw you in prison? All in the name of democracy ya know..

🙂

are you kidding me? I have bb and it’s still hard. Maybe I have slow fingers. I think it would be easier with a 486 though.

Originally posted by mixtec
You bring up a viable issue Google. I can honestly tell you Ive given up trying to help people change here in Mexico because they dont want to change, or at least not in the dramatic kind of way that change is brought about in the US or Europe. So indeed there may be objections by both the government and the public in Latin America over industrialized nations imposing finance standards for their economys, even if those type of regulations would really help them. In Africa its a different story, I believe the average person is out of touch with their government, and the developed world has a responcibility to protect them.

Mixtec, I’m not talking about financial stresses that western nations place on the latin/central american countries, although that certainly exists. I’m referring to what is probably the root of a lot of countries in the world hating the US due to interventionist policies all through-out the cold war. E.g., going to Guatemala and kicking out the democratically elected leader there and replacing him with a dictator friendly to the US, or over-throwing the democratically elected leader in Iran, and replacing him with the Shah. There are many other cases when the US intervened to setup a puppet regime for its own interests, rather than in the interests of the people, and ended up screwing over and assisting in the killing/maiming of thousands of civilians. Perhaps millions. Other examples include Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc… Why keep running the School of the Americas?