Jō AsakuraI know speculating based on roughly nothing is kinda “your thing”, but that is ridiculous. Are you really placing your bets that there is a rear viewing radar without *any* evidence other than some stickers? How scientific. Now, a small quiz:
Does T-50-1 and -2 have radiation stickers around the nose? You want to suggest there is a radar in those two?
Personally i have been placing my bets in the same way Mack8 is since those stickers were apparent on the first T-50-4 pictures. Ie, ECM system.
If you mean speculations that later get confirmed by the words of the relevant engineering concern’s #1, or commercial brochures etc.etc. then yeah, I guess that’s ‘my thing’. Better than speculating on L-band AESA ‘radars’ flapping about it the LEVCONS or LE- (irrespective of the science or engineering feasibility) now that’s what I call beam steering!!!
What colour was the tail stinger on the (unpainted) ‘051’?, what colour was it in the subsequent prototypes? Hint: the same as the ‘cheek’ array installation. Which would make the material – fibreglass. What do you think the Indian press meant by 360° AESA?
Much like the F-22, the T-50’s EW/ECM suite will have arrays distributed around the airframe (including the wingtips), certainly there’s a description that gives a strong indication it’s their AN/ALR-94. I’ll post up what I found tomorrow.
Jō AsakuraAhhh…..the ‘5 AESAs’ meme. This tallies from 1(main X-band) + 2 ( ‘cheek’ X-band) + 2 (L-band for IFF)= 5.
My version is: 4 X-band (1 main + 2 ‘cheek’ + 1 tail*) + 2 L band = 6 (but as the L-bands aren’t radar they don’t count, despite having active arrays). So 4 is good. What the Indian press called “a 360° AESA”.:D
* the ‘Danger Radiation’ symbols on the tail is a give away, IMHO. Also note from where the brake chute deploys:
Jō AsakuraHow many apertures are planned ??? In some airframes I see one behind the canopy, in some not.
The ‘vanishing’ installation directly behind the canopy is known as 101KS-О (101КС-О), the ‘O’ stands for ‘defence’ (Оборона) and hence is believed to be a DIRCM. The other distributed sensors (101KS-U/101KS-У) are UV MAWS.
The KS-O will likely reappear on later machines as different prototypes test different systems.
As for KS-U, 4 sensors provide full spherical coverage, as demonstrated by ‘054’.
Jō AsakuraMore [flying] prototypes & pre-production machines than there are here links:
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924442.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924441.jpg.
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924372.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924371.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924230.jpg.
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924190.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924184.jpg.
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924111.jpg.
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924102.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/924097.jpg
Jō AsakuraI suspect that would include the prototypes for the Indians as well . It will be interesting to see if there are major changes that are brought about to the airframe as the Indians are convinced that they need a platform that is more stealthy even if they have to pay a penalty on manoeuvrability .
In case of the T-50 PAK-FA , prototypes that were on display in MAKS 2013 , the existing airframe skin is made overwhelmingly of revetted metalic skin, but that is not what the Indians want in all likelihood. The Indian PAK FA will therefore be distinctly different in external appearance since its airframe skin, inclusive of the canards & tailfins, will all be built of radar-absorbent composites-based materials similar to what they have been doing with their LCA MK I .
.
Bear in mind the journo who wrote that article probably knows little about aircraft and even less about the PAK-FA, but he probably knows a lot about nationalistic flag waving. I interpreted that article differently. I thought it gave a glimpse of HAL’s workshare on the FGFA project, I.e to develop composite tail fins for both Indian & Russian versions- as a radar absorbent structure? even better!!
The Russkies don’t give a hoot what the Indian press or even politicians say about how wunderbar the FGFA will be compared to the PAK-FA- if it gets them to sign that US$5.5bn cheque any faster. Hell, they’d probably have been happy to fly ‘the troika’ in the Indian tricolour and declared all three PMIs (what the Russians call the FGFA) last week just to get the next stage of funding done and dusted this fiscal. Remember, only a few weeks ago HAL kicked up a firestorm with the IAF over being prepared to surrender as much as 30% of it’s design & development workshare for the FGFA, now it’s HAL that can teach Sukhoi a thing or two!! Of course the PMI/FGFA will be far superior to ‘blue 51 & 52’ flying today…..you’ll see the same superiority in the RuAF versions. I’m sure Indian posters such as Teer would broadly agree with my interpretation.
R U sure about being “made of overwhelming metallic skin”?*
I wouldn’t worry about rivets, cowlings, yaadah, yaadah, there’s gonna be another static tester for a reason. Besides things are expected to get interesting once ’56’ debuts. In short much, much more to come.
*http://sukhoi.org/img/gallery/wallpaper/1_29_01_10/1002101_80.jpg.
Jō Asakura@ Jo Asakura
few questions
1) whats the news about OLS 50 IRST which is going to be placed in PAK-FA in future ?
2) what’s the possible missile weapon loadout in PAK -FA center fuselarge would it be
3+ 3 combination of 6 bvraam or 4+4 combination of 8 bvaams ?3) Do u think L band + X band aesa radar would be effective against VLO platforms?
4) whats the news about PAK-FA RWR antennas , would it be comparable to F22’s ALR -94 system ??
CHEERS
The head of Phazotron-NIIR, Yuri Guskov, stated the development time for the 3D GaN radar would be less than the 5 years taken for ‘Zhuk AE’. It was awarded after a competitive tender for a government contract and given that it is being marketed for ‘any platform’ then I would say PAK-FA would be a prime candidate, especially if development is completed ~2017/18. Imho, we won’t see serial PAK-FA’s before 2018. Tikhomirov-NIIP would simply purchase the GaN modules from the production facility and integrate them onto the N036, Phazotron may share/assist with hardware integration development & software source code as both radar houses will soon be consolidated under the government stakeholding ‘Roselektronika’ («Росэлектроника»), and given the national importance of the T-50 programme.
Also, the L-band AESA on the Su-35S & T-50 is NOT a radar- it is for IFF. LPI and other EW modes akin to the ALR-94 are a given, though details are scarce. A company called OAO ‘Almaz’ (ОАО «Алмаз») recently stated an in-development advanced EW and jammer in the X and Ku band, we’ll have to wait for more details. Interestingly, when those pics of ’51’ in its hangar were taken the other day, that press call was to announce the expansion of Russian Academy of Sciences’ participation from the current 1 faculty to 5. So clearly there’s much more to come. I’m not so clued-up on the OLS, but other posters here definitely will be.
Your other queries have already been answered regarding your picture- which is at best amateur and quite comical. Certainly not a subject of serious debate on this thread but maybe so on the J-20 thread.
Quite possibly the (RCS treated?) front end of the 117S (117C):
http://government.ru/media/photos/1024/41d487211bcaea18050b.jpg
Jō AsakuraI’ve seen Eurofighter several times @ airshows, and I don’t recall such a (continuously accelerating) climb rate as seen in the above video. The T-50’s really something else.
Obligatory, given that the number of prototype/pre-production machines is set to more than double from the current 4, and if you include ‘Type 30’ verification- I’d say around another 6 years. Austin, check your PMs.
Superlatives fail me:
Jō AsakuraHaving said that, Russian avionics systems have improved by leaps and bounds over the 90’s…
Here’s a GaAs AESA that went largely unnoticed. This company also supply the T/R modules for the T-50’s N036:
ФГУП «НПП «Исток» представит вниманию посетителей салона многоканальный приемо-передающий модуль малогабаритной активной фазированной антенной решетки (АФАР). Данная технология позволит достичь уникальных массогабаритных характеристик для использования АФАР в перспективной военной технике (самолеты, вертолеты, ракеты с головками самонаведения). Ее габариты в 1,5-2 раза меньше существующих отечественных аналогов.
FGUP “NPP Istok” will present [@ MAKS] a multi-channel T/R module of a small-sized active phased array antenna (AESA).This technology will make it possible to achieve unique characteristics for use of the AESA on future military platforms (aircraft, helicopters, guided missiles). It’s dimensions are 1.5-2 times smaller than comparable domestically produced AESAs.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]220361[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]220362[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]220363[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]220364[/ATTACH]
1st pic is ‘NPP Istok’s’ array, 2nd their T/R module. The 3rd pic is Tomsk NIIPP’s (Томский НИИПП) GaN MMIC & LTCC substrate for Phazotron-NIIRs 3D radar (4th pic). Flight tests for the latter are planned to commence in 2014, and development of the array embedded in a polymer composite laminate will be undertaken 2014-15.
It is only now, after nearly a decade that sufficient funding became available for programme implementation, that the fruits of those investments are beginning to be glimpsed and, clearly, the Russians have come a long way from ‘Bars’, ‘Irbis-E’ and even ‘Zhuk-AE’.
Jō AsakuraYeah, maybe it’s an age thing but the T-50’s easily competing with many seriously hot women these days (including mine).
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/922336.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/922150.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/922321.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/922435.jpg
http://fotkidepo.ru/photo/401381/50624xkocpLedht/ygHbG8sHXQ/922301.jpg
Jō AsakuraT-50 weapons release trials due to commence by the end of the year:
http://www.itar-tass.com/c134/855850.html
http://russianplanes.net/id117565
http://russianplanes.net/id117566
Jō Asakura…
Jō AsakuraThree’s a crowd:
http://russianplanes.net/id117363
http://russianplanes.net/id117367
Jō Asakura– Для создания военного двигателя пятого поколения также нужно провести техническое перевооружение?
– Да, кое-что уникальное необходимо. Это оборудование для нанесения неметаллического покрытия, оборудование, связанное с электрохимией. Но нужны не только станки, но и новые решения, над которыми мы работаем вместе с серьезными научными организациями, такими, например, как Курчатовский институт. Оборудование для реализации новых технологий мы также будем производить совместно. 30 марта, например, мы открываем центр по производству монолитных инструментов с наноструктурированным покрытием. Оборудование для него изготовлено в Курчатовском институте. Тут важно понимать, что станки по критическим направлениям программы военного двигателестроения, таким как электрохимия, химфрезерование, оборудование, позволяющие делать неметаллические агрегаты, в том числе лопатки, нам американцы не продадут. Придется делать самим.
Journalist: To create a military engine of the fifth generation will it be necessary to retool/modernise?
*Ilya Fyedorov: -Yes, something unique. This equipment for the application of non-metallic coatings, equipment associated with electrochemistry. But we need not only new tools, but new solutions also, we are working with major scientific organisations such as the Kurchatovsky Institute. The equipment for implementation of new technologies, we are also going to produce jointly. On the 30th March, for example, we open a facility for the production of monolithic instruments with a nanostructured coating. The equipment is made for us by Kurchatovsky. It is important to understand the critical roles of machines in the programmes of military engines such as electrochemistry, chemical milling equipment, the ability to make non-metal components, including the [fan] blades, the Americans won’t sell them to us. We’ll have to produce them ourselves.
Incidentally, the Kurchatovsky Institute (Курчатовский институт) are also World leaders in carbon nanotube research and are assisting NPO Saturn in
Снижения радиолокационной заметности самолета
lowering the RCS of the aircraft
http://www.nrcki.ru/includes/periodics/nrc_news/2013/0819/000011118/detail.shtml
Did anything get ‘lost in translation’? No?- I didn’ think so. Can I go now?…….Snow Monkey check your PMs.
Jō AsakuraSure.
Regarding you being ‘wrong’ on the duct RAM, let me clarify. The patent makes sweeping generalisations, of course the T-50 is a classified programme and only broad outlines are given. F.e It states S-ducks when we know the reality is different. I don’t believe they’ll use post production RAM a la Su-35 or even F-22. The entire duct is CFRP and if for whatever reason (f.e. delamination risks) they don’t incorporate their version of ‘FibreMat’, they’ll just use MWNTs. Either way the duct will be a de facto RAS. This is how they do it on the F-35 and the maintenance and adhesion headaches of the F-22 are avoided. Not to mention the same performance for much < 110th thickness and weight. You won’t find these details on the patent.
We try to ‘fill in the blanks’ of which there are many and try to avoid outlandish propositions. I, for one, have never entertained the idea of a variable cycle or even 2-D nozzles. But there is one component that doesn’t fit: the only alternative to a blocker ( which will complicate an already complicated fluid flow in the duct) is a PMC/MMC fan. It’s not like we’re talking about an ion drive system or nuclear fusion. You’re correct in your assessment that not everything funded by MinPromTorg is adopted, and they do publish a list of projects whose funding is discontinued. There are, however, a certain few [programmes] that appear to receive priority and are championed. The CNT ‘FibreMatski’ RAM is one of those success stories. The 3-D preform weaving technology is another and it’s adoption appears to be at least on a par with The West’s.
The very product for which that programme was initiated (fan blade) appears to be another priority because initial failure was not met with the usual withdrawal of funding and programme cancellation. For OAO NIAT (ОАО НИАТ), the efforts were intensified and they are not the only ones active in this field. The use of foam in a hollow core is intriguing in itself, as they already have a conventional design similar to LEAP-X and GE9X. So if they simply wanted weight saving and performance for a civil engine, why the overcomplexity of the hollow, foam filled blade?
However, the application of PMC fan blades for civil engines in Russia is over a decade away (possibly for the PD-14M). So why the flurry of activity @ NIAT? (and others). Although lead times can be very long, the timeframe for two developments at least, don’t fit. NIAT have developed other composite fabrication technologies for the PAK-FA programme in conjunction with OAO Komposit and others and have an impressive Worldwide client portfolio.
Maybe it’s nothing……but it certainly doesn’t look like ‘nothing’, and constructive criticism is always welcome. Soon we’ll know either way.
I apologise for any offence caused in my previous post(s).
Jō AsakuraWell if a certain somebody (also a proven liar & fabricator) could read Russian, he’d realise that that 1.5+ year old ‘PPT’ slide doesn’t say much about anything at all. Even flateric will attest to that. That certain somebody’s probably upset about the glossy FGUP VIAM commercial brochure (which he also can’t read), where nothing looks fantastical, in fact things look production ready…..but I already posted about the 3D preform weaving methods a long time ago, and how they were initially and specifically developed for the fan blade . But that certain somebody derided it as ‘irrelevant experimental research crap’.
He doesn’t even realise that ‘irrelevant experimental research crap’ will be operationalised on an industrial scale for his beloved MS-21.
Which is kindda ironic since he’s trying to convince everyone that the tech for the PAK-FA is directly derived from that of the MS-21.
Of course, he has no comment to make on the employee education & training programme @ the UMPO production facility for the handling of nanocomposites for military engines…..but hey let’s enjoy all the (non) disclosure of a ‘PPT’.
Sorry flateric but me, I’ll take my cues from NPO Saturn’s #1 and #2, you as well as I know what a ‘cold section’ consists of- their words not mine and the evidence concurs with their words, I didn’t fabricate that VIAM brochure, did I?
You’re wrong about the “RAM covered duct walls” too.
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