Touchy subject,
My side of the story (19 years of experience in this field). I am part of the Aircraft Recovery Group 1940-1945 Foundation based at Heemskerk near Amsterdam. Our aim is to locate aircrash-sites from WWII with the aim to locate and recover aircraft wrecks containing missing aircrew regardless of the nationality. This work will only be carried out by the RNethAF and we will give any assistance we can.
And wreckage recovered will never be sold but put on show at our museum as a memorial to the crew. This serves also as a place where next of kin can visit to see part of their past. This is all done with the utmost respect to the crews, as well as current legislation. We also recover aircraft ourselves that do not contain missing aircrew or UXB but that is also to give the local people who witnessed the crash or were otherwise involved the chance to find out what events led to the crash and it’s recovery.
No golddigging, no selling of parts etc.
period
If anyone of you wish to contribute in this thread remember to keep it civil and if you don’t have any experience such as Kev35, it’s very difficult to judge this sensitive matter. I would like to ask the moderators to be alert and not turn this into another flame war.
Cheers
Cees
I have the remains of an Albemarle throttle box that had seen better days.
Cheers
Cees
There’s a pair of Manchester wheels at East Kirkby next to the Hampden project.
With that thread on the tyres? IIRC the Manchester had the smooth tyres.
Wellington perhaps?
Cheers
cees
Would the wing be strong enough to withstand the loads when an inward retracting undercarriage is fitted, or the wing would be too thin to be able to house the pintles etc.
Just a guess
Cheers
Cees
Hi Simon,
Yes that’t the main problem. Aren’t there two Whitley Projects in fact ongoing? And I mentioned it before, there are enough parts to build a third Wellington………
Keep adding to this..
Cees
Mark will probably know
Cees
Nobody is stopping you from airing you views on this topic, on the contrary my dear chap;)
Histroy of the type is perhaps less important and if a Spitfire fuselage was modified with Attacker type wings, it would be the same as chopping up a Lancaster to create a Manchester:D
Cees
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You can see the rear fuselage and tail behind the complete TB885:)
Cheers
Cees
Anything remaining of the Mk 22 in the background om Mark’s pic?
Cheers
Cees
It was generally regarded as pioneering aspects of aircraft design that later became standard, and was recommended as such by the Air Ministry.
Particularly in cockpit design and accesability to componants for servicing etc. It was an advanced aircraft before the Spiteful.I’m not saying it was a better aircraft, but it was regarded as important in fighter design.
In the same fashion the Spiteful/Seafang was important using the laminair flow wing technology, leading to the Attacker and the Spiteful was the fastest piston engined fighter at 494 mph. Both types have their merits.:p
Just to be sure, in the first post of this thread I mentioned display at the RAFM, but not necessarily a project initiated by this fine museum. IIRC Elliott mentioned that if the Whitley airframe was complete it was intended for display at the RAFM. Alex Henshaw started the project for a replica Mew Gull which is now on display at Hendon (with no RAF-connection).
For this thread I am more looking to hear you views regarding the nuts and bolts instead of arguing which type. It’s about the reconstruction of an extinct aircraft regardless of type. What can be done.
Cheers
Cees
Building any aeroplane is going to be expensive. Even if you spread the cost over several years, it isn’t going to be cheap. Unless I can pull myself out of debt and make some serious money, this and any other [mad-capped] project will remain just a pipe-dream, albeit one worth pursuing – even if any research undertaken can help someone else make things happen
Phillip,
Why am I not surprised to read the above……
Cheers
Cees
The Short Stirling and AWA Whitley must rate at the most significant RAF WW2 types missing from any collection.
They both had operational careers in WW2, and a physical example of each would be the best way to form a long lasting memorial to those crew who lost their lives while flying in them.
Not forgetting the Manchester remembering the crews who not only had to face the enemy but with unreliable engines as well. But suggesting to chop up a Lancaster would be sacrilege. There is a substantially complete York in the arctic, would be a nice source of parts:)
Cees
Ok the MB.5 was more significant.
But when it comes to recreating early post war missing types, the list is long and the types complicated. Would love to see a Blackburn Firecrest myself, but that wont happen.
Just thought, I think I have seen pics of a complete Attacker in Pakistan
Why, only one was built. The Seafang was built in little numbers but at least about a dozen or so. A SPiteful would be great on display next to the MB5 and Hornet just to show how development had progressed.
Cees
Thanks for the constructive remarks chaps,
This thread is intended to see what can be realistically possible by reconstruction (semi:D) extinct aircraft types. I chose the Spitful/Seafang because of it’s large similarity to the Spitfire and the current restoration industry that would make sure an accurate airframe could be built.
Mark P, the Halifax is a similar situation as YAM used the complete wings of Hastings TG536 as the wings are Halifax based (with a larger span intermediate section between the engines) and using recovered parts/sections. Combine the cockpit of PN323 with YAM’s airframe and you are a long way in the right direction for a full blown 100% authentic airframe.
OK, there is a difference of opion about whether a Spiteful/Seafang is important or not. Display at the RAF Museum is just meant as an example, I don’t think the FAA Museum would refuse a Seafang would they?:D
If we look at really important types then take the Armstrong Whitworth Siskin as an example as this is an important interwar type and there are large sections such as upper wings surviving that could form the basis of a good quality reconstruction as SkySport Engineering did to the Bulldog.
Of course there are large sections of Stirling in storage but the bulk of the Stirling airframe (funds, space etc.) would rule that out. Better have the Stirling Project take on that part as well as Elliott is doing to the Whitley Project and David to the Hornet etc.
Better spread the work on various types than wasting a lot of energy on different projects at the same time by the same organisation I would say. Although cooperation will be important. If all the Bulldog parts hadn’t been gathered the current airframe would be much more difficult to reconstruct.
There are parts suviving of most extinct aircraft but they are scattered but it would be useful if some form of cooperation could be established of which we can all benefit. But that will be difficult if not impossible to be realistic.
The past two decades has seen some interesting reconstructions (Albacore, Bulldog, Battle, Northrop seaplane at Gardermoen to name a few) others are in the pipeline such as the Hampden at Cosford, Sopwith Dolphin and given time there will be more in the future. Perhaps Steve Vizard will start his Westland Whirlwind reconstruction.
Anyone with hands on experience in this field feel free to comment.
Cheers
Cees
Thanks for the pics Mark,
So what are the plans for it?
Cheers
Cees