Exactly- so one could argue that Russian losses were too high and “idiotism”, but they are not. Each country to its own, and how it deals with terrorists and insurgents.
About tanks, well- you didnt get my point. The IDF should have ideally supported their tanks with infantry to prevent them from getting flanked, and avoiding crippling shots which could hit the ammo stowage. But given Israels population issue and the need to avoid casualties, I suspect commanders have seen it fit to risk tanks rather than throw more and more troops into harms way. And this has had an effect on the higher armour losses. I suspect, that post this conflict, the Israeli Army will field Trophy/ Iron Fist in earnest. That is a given, thanks to the IDFs over reliance on mechanised forces- again partly dictated by their doctrine to avoid casualties.
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The point the Gentleman is trying to make is not regarding the Military strategy of cutting down of infantry by using Armour, but rather the mere fact that the Might Myth of Merkava-4 is smoked (guess what its caught on Video as well)
What is this “mighty myth of the Merkava is smoked”- a rather juvenile comment dont you think? There is no tank which is invincible, and to think that betrays ignorance.
The Leopard & Leclerc for instance both have hull stowage of ammo (below the turret line, but still)- one can imagine what would happen if that were set off.
But overall, as designs go- the Leopard series and Merk series are quite superior to say the average Al-Khalid or T-72 etc on accounts of its overall performance, whether it be armour or firepower.
So , i’ll speak about 2nd Chechen war: During 3 years of 2nd CW Russians lost 7 aircrafts and about 30 helos, and less than 10 tanks. I should stress it – during 3 years. To make an comparasion, USA lost much, much, much more in Iraq. Israel, on the other hand, couldnt lose nor aircraft, nor helos as there was just no oppurtunity to it. Israel used fighter-bombers to deliver most of its bombload which are invulnerable to MANPADS. Helos was only used near border (we can even say from the border lol). Obviosly, the main problem with using FB instead of helos and CAS aircrafts is what pilot cant identify its target from close range as first, and what it needs more time to react as second. Either way, the losses of Israel in tanks can be only compared to 1st Chechen war, and for very same reason – politcans/generals stupidity.
There is no problem to lose tank here and there – after all tanks are indeed build to burn instead of infantry. But such scale of losses with such insignificant results can be only described as “idiotism“.
Thanks Chrom for the details. However, I do feel that you are needlessly generalising here. How many troops did Russia lose vs the Chechens? Can that too be described as idiotism? Every nation makes its own choices about how to conduct campaigns, and the needs and the methods differ in turn. The first Chechen war saw a lot of fighting in built up areas & armour deployment in zones where their limited visibility and situational awareness was used against them. The same happened in Israels usage of armour vs the Hezbollah, tanks are tanks – after all.
Secondly, the loss of tanks is acceptable to Israel as versus the loss of troops which is not. When we come to this realization, given Israels population constraints, then we realize why they’d rather have a tank scrapped but a portion of its crew alive, than risk an infantry unit in a firefight with ATGMs being used in plenty. Secondly, on another board, an Israeli soldier is on record stating that out of a vast majority of ATGMs fired, only a few caused substantial damage, and only a few of those were losses- and in his words, acceptable.
This is not to deny that certain actions were clearly silly. IIRC in one notable engagement, the IDF spur of the moment attack cost them 9 tanks crippled and 8 crewmen killed. But then, I’d also ask which service in the world has demonstrated a perfect record of planning and executing operations.
As regards insignificant results- well history will be the judge of that. Sure, this has been no six-day war kind of thing for the Israelis. But they have inflicted heavy casualties on the Hezbollah and there might be an international force in the region forcing Hezb to tone down its actions. So overall, not a bad show either.
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