But isen’t Iraq or Talebans army adequate enough for being treated like a soldier?…It’s just juridical BS…Take away your human rights just becouse you don’t wear the right badges…

Yup, they follow the most amazing rights system in the world with their captives, to be given this “right”. You reap what you sow.

Yeas, Terrorist are all the ones fighting agaisnt USA and Isreal and soldiers are those heroic mens defending the marvelous states mentioned above…thats the one you wanted to hear right 😉

Actually many non Americans believe that the ones fighting against the ISAF in Afghanistan and those who find their way into Gitmo are terrorists.

They guys sitting in Gitmo are mostly just normal dudes happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time…and those others, Talebans and Iraqi insurgents are soldiers, they fought for the cause they belived to be right…wheter you liked it or not…

Which of course justifies everything. Please give this charade of equivalence a break. I believe (today, right now) that serial murdering is my forte and I go on and conduct a few attacks – would that make me equivalent to professional soldiers and the code of conduct they usually abide by, in civilized countries?

Some of those in Gitmo were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Others like John Walker Lindh chose where they wanted to be and paid the price. Is that really so hard to discern!

…But ofcourse to you all those non-western fighters are terrorist so why bother to expalin it furhter…But let me ask you, when your primary task is killing, does it really matter what you are called?

This of course is more rhetoric…and I do wonder how long you can keep this up. Or are you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian?

I am not even western but can certainly testify that those fighting the ISAF in Afghanistan are terrorists, and the likes of Zarqawi who chose to attack civilians by intent are definitely terrorists.

It does matter as to who does the killing. In any civilized nation state, whose rules we all agree to abide by, the task is mandated and done only by professional soldiers, whose code of conduct and rules of engagement are decided by the nation state. In the case of Afghanistan and Iraq and many other places besides, when anyone can conduct an attack purely directed at civilians for the sake of creating and sustaining a feeling of terror, these people are not soldiers, they are terrorists. No amount of moral equivalence and trying to posit that all soldiers are killers & since terrorists kill they too are soldiers will change this basic fact. Heck, even if you Venn diagram it, it wont work.

Afghanistan was an actual just war. It had the Taliban and Pak ISI run camps which were acting as terror factories for the bulk of Islamist terrorists. Iraq in comparison – well, lets let history be the judge of that.

Can you please tell me Jews as a nation beleive in which ALLAH??? As far as i can understand GOD OF IBRAHIM, MOSES, JESUS and MOHUMMAD (SAW) are all same, ONE GOD.
So Jews have a nation which they call Israel, may be later on Muslims will also have a single nation, who knows…. even the Chirstians too,, ofcourse the free massions got their one already and i dont wana name it. :>

What if the Jews dont believe in Allah? What if they believe Allah is a !@#$5 and would rather believe in their own God or whatever name they choose..

I didn’t quote the numbers from arab media, the horror.
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=16247

That “collation” mentions that impeccable source of news information, Al Jazeera. Says it all.

So according to you it’s ‘ok’ to kill civilians in a retaliatory strike? Since ofcourse Palestinian lives hold no value. Right, ain’t I?

Wow, its ok to kill Israeli civilians, but when the retaliation has the Palestinians suffer (and by accident, not intention), the Palestinians cry “murder” and run around waving their hands…please…as they say, dont bring rocks to a gunfight or start a brutal war of violence where you will get thwacked around..all the Pals prove is that their fellow Pals, Hamas etc care less about their own lives than anything..

LoL you are so predictable :D. Syria, Egypt, Algeria arent even democracies on the scale of Israel so how did they “elect” genocidists? Please give details as to exactly WHEN did Iran use napalm on civilians, exactly whose land are they stealing, exactly where are they building a apartheid wall? Please, enlighten me with more fantasy facts of your own manufacturing. I always enjoy a good laugh.

Nice rant…only problem is that it was your silly rant to begin with.. Iran much much better…stones women, has a medieval shariah law in force, sends children to fight across minefields…wonderful tactics. Iraq- what did it to the Kurds again?

“Apartheid wall”- such evocative words. Funny, so Israel cant build a wall to protect itself from attacks. How unfair of them. Why the !#%^^!

But when the Turks and Iraqis persecute the Kurds across borders its- A-ok. When Syria massacres the Pals and conducts a spot of ethnic cleansing, its A-Ok.

Stealing land…nice term there…well heres a wake up call, that land is GONE. You guys had your chance- three wars and you got whacked. If you are that incompetent, then dont expect the rest of the world to sit by and hold your hand or listen to native Indian sob stories about how the white devils came and built the white house…

What did Mohammad do to the Quraysh tribe,not to mention his actions in war & all the armies of Islam did? Can one now go back in a time machine, bring that man to his senses or todays beliefs or to countless others besides?

The only way forward is to live and let live, and how hard is that to understand? But unless the Pals stop sending terrorists into Israel, that wall and retaliatory actions will remain.

Democracies…please dont make me wince…Arab culture is on display every day in Iraq, with its attendant tribal warfare, belief in medieval Islamic beheadings etc. Is this “better” than Israel?

Does what Iran do to its own population in any way comparable to Israeli laws?

Civilians and Pals, wasnt it Syria which conducted a massive massacre on the poor Pals? Wonder why..
When it comes to putting their money where their mouth is, the Arab countries have no problems in treating the Pals like subhuman flotsam..but when it comes to fighting the evil Zionists and their civilians..the noble Arabs have no problem in fighting the war to the last Pal…how amazing.

You might want to learn a thing or two about the Sabra, Shatila massacres.

I already knew about them. Thats why I wrote back and forth massacres between the Pals and the Phalangists…given that the Pals are no angels..despite the crown of martyrdom you are so trying to foist over their heads..what it does make me wonder is how the Arab world constantly plays up the Sabra and Shatila ones while keeping mum over the countless others.. Damour etc..not to mention their own antics.

And her political views make her life any cheap? Since you obviously are not showing remotest hints of remorse over this act.

“Remorse over this act”– why is Rachel corrie any different from the idiots in my country who do similar acts and get hammered? Just because she was white, liberal, out of whack and crazily fanatical about her belief to be so silly to stand in front of a D-9 with limited visiblility, when it was merely engaged in digging up a field etc to search for weapons? The problem is that she took risks, and paid the price, if I do the same tomorrow, that would make me cogniscant of my own silliness or bravery or whatever (whichever side of the spectrum you are from), not an instant martyr, graded differently on account of where Corrie was from.

But like Hamas said, her death was a solid propoganda victory, and your citing of it as some great thing proves it.

As far as shooting at kids by Israeli soldiers is concerned there are more than just a few examples of that. A simple search at google would suffice for that matter.

Please dont make me laugh…in my country, in a riot, quite a few “kids” got shot by cops during violent stone throwing and attacks on public infrastructure and cops. These people were idiots, pure and simple. The cops were forced to act and the actual brave perpetrators often skedaddle whilst the jeering youth, often engaged as a shield get “tagged”.

Thats the whole problem with the Pals, they want to chuck rocks, molotov cocktails, fire katyushas, snipe at Israelis, conduct civilian bombings targetting non combatants *intentionally*- but they whine like hell, when the stick comes down. That is plain stupidity.

The Palestinian approach to Israel has been that of the lemming. Did they mobilize and cause a non violent protest, the likes of which the world would have seen and acknowledged? Hardly. They picked up the gun, radicalized their own society, have multiple extremist Muslim orgs, and like the lemming, thus jumped off the cliff in an orgy of self destructive behaviour. And this is to be admired?

To reduce Hamas etc to just “war mongerers” without any recognition of the conditions from which they come, the continued occupation of Palestinian territories by the state of Israel for some 60 odd years, the denial of justice, torture, collective punishment etc is incredibly ahistorical and colludes with the prejudiced media that presents their acts as if they come from some essential Arabness rather than from their political situation.

Sorry but this is the worst kind of relativism. By the same standards, I can quote the violence visited upon the African American demographic and point out why ML King was wrong, but he was correct, and popular and mobilized a community positively, whilst the Black Panthers etc remained fringe. Nothing of this sort is visible amongst the Palestinians. They have embraced nihilism, an uncompromising view in which they alone are the victims, Israel is the oppressor and has to be destroyed (PLO flag anyone?) and embraced extremist Islam with a vengeance. All those cries of jihad and religious war warm the cockles of our heart for sure.

Face it- the Pals have not conducted a non-violent or morally upright campaign, they have constantly used terror as a means of negotiation and retaliaton, and hence they have comparatively little support bar the Muslim countries, in most of which anyway, the Jews are demonized, not to mention the historic contempt for non Muslims (bar the UAE, a few countries in Southeast Asia etc). The Islamic world needs to stop encouraging the Pals in their nihilism and learn to live and let live, but fat chance that will happen. As everyone is willing to drive the Jews out, at the cost of the last Palestinian & the Pals themselves are too caught up in their own nihilism to recognise their own foibles.

The Hamas etc are definitely immoral in attacking civilians but try looking at it historically – the rebels in india in the 1857 war of independence

Sorry, but this is claptrap, bar a few isolated massacres, the 1857 war was fought on a national scale, & the British were in no way as restrained as the Israelis were. Their levies of locals were not gentle either. What after that? What of the Congress with MK Gandhi, Sardar Patel et al- who chose non-violence as a means to resist the British, despite the brutalities of the empire? Ever seen how they were hammered in protest marches alone? They didnt pick up the gun precisely because it would further wreak violence on a society which was already struggling to make ends meet and it would radicalize it further. Even Bose of the INA did not wage a covert terror war, he went so far as to organize his own conventional army and wage war. Nothing of this sort has been done by the Pals. They have neither the willingness to adopt non-violence or the fortitude to live and let live. Which requires the realization, that come what may, Israel will continue to exist and both countries have to live alongside.

or the national insurgency in Algeria against France wasnt exactly kissing the colonizers out of power. How did the American colonies liberate themselves from the English? That wasnt exactly a gentlemanly handshake that decided things between the 2 parties, was it?

The Algerian war was typical of the Islamist credo and was as brutal as could be expected.Which then leads to the next question, when was the last time any Muslim country or organization used non violence, apart from Khan Abdl Gaffar Khan who was influenced by MK Gandhi. And we all know what happened to Khans legacy.

The problem is that Islamists find it all too easy to cry Jihad and quote a religoious justification for war. The path to alternatives seems firmly closed, bar theological interpretations which others argue about in their mosques and seminaries, while the jihad continues unabated outside. Is this legacy of violence, of unrepentant bloodletting, anything to be proud of? Was what medieval Arab Armies did in Arabia, Asia anything to be proud of- is seeing this legacy of bloodthirsty jihad in todays world, anything good? What did the Turks do to the Armenians? And the Iraqis today to their own fellow citizens in the claim of driving out the US…and we should not be disgusted when the Palestinians make much the same claims about what Israel deserves and what should be done to it?

The US vs the British was one more example of conventional armies facing off & winning their freedom, after the founding fathers decided on a prudent and agreed upon course of action, sitting down and talking things over. What they did 300 years back, is yet to be done by any Islamist country today, with their myriad movements, all of which use violence upon the state (which retaliates in ways that make the Israelis look like kids) and happily on each other.

Take a look at the shameful Shia-Sunni conflict in Iraq for instance. Or even how the Turkish state has whacked around the Kurds, and so did Iraq.

You cant step on someone’s neck, choke out their oxygen and then ask them not to struggle.

Sure, but you cant expect to punch a man in his guts and not expect him to not knee you in the nuts in retaliation & then protest that his knee in the nuts, hurt you more and hence it is unjustifiable..which is what this boils down to.

Whatever justification the Pals had, even the intifada and how it began is useless now given their tendency to brutality and extremely self serving tactics against Israelis and even their own countrymen. Their clarion call to extremist Islam as a means of motivation is yet one more worrisome aspect.
These are not non violent Pals sitting on principled hunger strikes day after day, or undertaking peaceful marches and getting hammered and showing a morally upright stand, come what may- these are people who use terror readily & then wonder why the rest of the world is fast losing any sympathy they had for them and their “cause”.

Bush has decided that democracies who refuse to sign the NPT and secretly build, test and maintain nuclear weapons will be exempt from the laws. (India and our recent great deal for us giving away nuke tech for mangoes…) :rolleyes:

Its pure business and better for the US.
1. Indias reactor market is estimated to be huge. Rich pickings for a US industry which has slid behind thanks to the US’s lack of appreciation/ dislike/ etc for nuke power.

2.Indias energy needs being met by N power, reduce the dependence on oil (and competition with the US) and rising oil prices

3. Lastly your mistaken, the US, is not granting India any great tech(apart from commercial deal making), what it is doing is easing access to the NPT nations and their stockpile of fissile material for Indias own planned reactors.

The Russians are serious ba$tards, pardon my french. If Putin has gone so far as to make this public, the threat and intent is serious.

There is the famous story of a Russian diplomat who was captured in the ME. His finger or ear was delivered to the embassy…the KGB captured the brother & other relatives of one of the abductors and sent a head back, with the gonads in the mouth, sewed shut…the diplomat was released..so the story goes.

If you dont clean up the mess today, it will come back and strike you with a vengeance much later on.

The London tube bombings will be a minor footnote in comparison. Before your boys and the US went in, and ISAF, the Taliban and ISI were using Afghanistan as one vast training camp for their jihadis. That is no longer the case.

Hang in there, and good will come of it.

Cut and run, and you will be back, after much worse, later on.