I am presuming you meant strikes like these: 1. Seven children (3 of ’em died) were among the 14 civilians wounded when an Israeli military aircraft fired two missiles at a vehicle in which two Al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades militants were traveling in Gaza City on Tuesday evening.
2. Thirteen Palestinian civilians have been killed in Israeli air strikes in the Gaza Strip this month.

I wonder how many “civilians” were wounded in the back and forth massacres between the Palestinian and Christian militias in Lebanon. And those thirteen palestinian civilians…well how “civil” were they exactly?

These numbers, these evocative stories, are all very well…funnily enough they dont mention the other side of the coin, as to the fact that these are often Israeli retaliatory strikes…if there is no live and let live, and if Katyusha’ing the kibbutz is what one wants to do, then theres a high chance that a Hellfire or Spike will be headed back your way..

See if you can answer this. Its a trick question: What do you call a country that uses napalm on civilians,has an illegal policy of assassinations with complete impunity, institutionalizes torture, steals land, pollutes water, buldozes peace activists, shoots children in the head and elects genocide-specialists to power?

All the same can be said of any Arab country and much much worse besides.

Lets see, Syria? Yup. Egypt, yup. Algeria, yup. Iraq and Iran, lets not even go there.

None of these countries followed anything like the ROE Israel has, by consequence of its choice of Government and constant scrutiny over the Pal-Israel conflict. If Israel was to use the Arab technique of dealing with the Pals, a few odd civilians/ month would hardly be the case.

So is Israel currently sponsoring “freedom movements” with bus bombings and attacks on civilians in the aforesaid countries?

Bulldozes peace activists? I take it you are referring to Rachel Corrie- well, if someone decides to stand in front of a bulldozer with extremely limited visibility, in order to make a statement, then the risk of being run over comes with the territory. Not to mention of course, her rather strident political views which didnt exactly endear her to her fellow citizens back in the US.

As regards napalm on civilians & shooting children in the head (sounds more grisly than the heart I guess), these are more one-offs than anything else.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/8772.htm

A very laudable act for sure. One wonders why the Palestinians are so ready towards violence, and that too using religious fanaticism as a rationale…obviously, non violenct resistance or the likes of Gandhi, Mandela (who changed to this methodology) or even ML King, are too effete for the brave Palestinians. Abducting teenagers and executing them certainly shows the international community as to the validity of their actions and the “justness” of their cause.

what about Israelis??? Kahanah hay, Isac Shamer, Baroch Goldeshtine … should I go on? it’s a long list!

How many of these guys are alive today and conducted bus bombings etc? Picking and choosing a few people is all too well, frankly, the Palestinians by their support for terror have done enough..

I’m NOT going to be drawn AGAIN into this endless debate, how can one convince someone who stole somebody else’s land that theft isn’t right???

Get over it. Your side was incompetent at war, had three chances and ended up losing more land – now that Israel has nukes, you cannot kick them out.

The only rational thing to do, is to accept their existence and ask for a proper “handshake” between both the Israelis and Palestinians, which the former might do, if the Arab community stops fighting Israel to the last Palestinian.

http://sana.org/eng/21/2006/06/28/43972.htm

to add the two aircraft were faced by two SA-3 missiles, they evaded and turned away even before crossing the coast line and Wadi Qandeel isn’t even close to the Presidential palace![/quote]

The reverse could be equally true.

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now can you tell me what you all call the kidnapping of 8 Palestinian ministers and 24 PMs this night in the West Bank by the Israeli terrorism machine???

Tit for tat. Would it have happened if the Palestinians had not upped the ante?

This reminds me of the “invincibility”of the F-117 Nighthawk. Until one was shot down at night over Serbia…I believe the Yank term that suits is “a loaded deck”. Still, being a VERY EXPENSIVE piece of kit, how else does one justify buying something one doesn’t need…The fact is that had they merely upgraded the F15 a’la’ Flanker et al (at a LOT cheaper price) the USAF would still be ahead of the game. But McDonnell is not in favour at the Pentagon…sort of like Gemini and Apollo…politics!

Probably because Mc Donnell doesnt exist anymore! :p

And Boeing has its fair share of US Mil business! :p

I have never said how the cost escalation happenned I have simply pointed out what has been reported and you have failed to provide anything contrary to those reports.

Which is the reason why many of us repeatedly pointed out the implicit error in your categorical denouements, something which you reacted to with vitriol.

The Israeli report on the other hand has been contradicted by other articles, unlike the reports about the CAG presentation to the Indian parliament which have yet to be contradicted by any source. With out access to the report we can only evaluate what has been published in the press and thus far this has been very consistent, which is a strong indication of the reliability of the news reports.

If you actually follow the reports, they indicate the standard trail of PTI, IANS, local orgs, then AFP cited in Defense news etc…same thing getting recycled ad nauseum..

It is clear that you dont have substantive experience with local reportage of CAG/ PAC etc and are just content with the google thingy…fine..your choice..

Unfortunately many of us, who have been burnt by these very same “sources”- whether it be Times of India and even Defense News (which thanks to its local reporter Vivek Raghuvanshi maintains a keel of 50% accuracy and 50% bilge), will continue to hanker for caution!

It is impossible to have a sensible discussion with people like you who are intent on making personal attacks and criticising a persons writing and spelling style when it is apparent that your argument is flawed.

I am seriously amused…on the one hand you slip juvenile jibes in …and then try to take the moral high ground…exactly why, I requested you…to desist, given that it is fairly obvious that this is more of an ego thing and even whilst offering a thousand pardons and salaams – you cant but resist and try to get a couple of quick jibes in.

Your posting and spelling style are very relevant- you tend to post off the cuff with quick angry challenges, when a cool head would have sufficed. Pointing the same out is no great sin either.

The last few posts have been well considered and written with more care (bravo!), but they stand in contrast to those earlier, where you were all too keen to roll up your sleeves and engage in fisticuffs, with terse dismissals of well intentioned addendums to your statement.

I do not have particular agenda i am not pakistani I have no problem with India i am just attempting to take a fair and balanced analysis of the evidence at hand, I am sorry if that upsets you.

I could say you are a person of Timbuktu living in Somalia or of Chinese origin living in the UK……or of.. ..is it even relevant

Your claim of being Pakistani or lack of, is irrelevant…and yet another strawman, since nobody here brought it up..or was least bothered …and is typically indicative of muddying up the waters even more.

What has been pointed out is that your categorical statements of criticizing a program purely on cost grounds, that too when the cost breakup and changes to the program are not known (SINCE we dont Have the report) are quite pointless.

And it would be better to wait for the actual report before we fly off the handle.
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Thats all!