Nick_76From br, posted by jc:
a huge success for DRDO 😎
16 launchers come with 5 radars (4 raj plus 3d Car) and other doodads. good stuff
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=9752
Akash missile to be inducted in air force
December 26, 2007 19:50 IST
The Indian Air Force has given the go ahead for induction of the indigenous surface-to-air Akash missile.
To start with, a squadron of these missiles, comprising 16 launchers would be inducted into the force, in what could be a happy new year tidings for the missile scientists, after repeated rejections by IAF experts earlier, according to Air Chief Fali Homi Major.
The IAF decision comes after a recent string of successful trials of the missile undertaken at the country’s interim test range at Balasore in Orissa.
if each squadron has 16 launchers, just a few more squadrons and the entire development costs will be written off. 😮
Nick_76why not NIIR? They seem to be further along in AESA than NIIP.
yeah, all flankers have datalink.
NIIR doesnt have the experience NIIP has with ESA
that Zaslon, Bars, Irbis knowledge will help NIIP in any AESA venture
besides NIIR has yet to launch a single ESA into production, and niip is the lead designer for aesa for the pak fa as well
Nick_76Yeah you are right most probably..i was basing my opinion on the saudi fiasco by the French..
😀
yeah could be given how the french deal makers are they are probably trying to do some master plan of linking 10 deals together who knows?!
and add our MOD to the masala curry and we have one dish which is boiling and boiling and boiling
Nick_76his minions may have taken bribes, but the services got their weapons and drdo got their budget cleared
as one phamous joke says= these guys may take money but they get the work done. these new fellows, they pretend not to take money nor do they get any work done
corruption is part and parcel of defense deals in india. we have to minimize it but not go overboard
there are many in kangress and upa and mod even now who are making money even if antony the great is not
just because antony and mukherjee want to be squeaky clean they are hobbling the services and making indias ties with sources of technology get hurt
what was the need of blacklisting denel because some bribes were paid. whos hurt, india or denel when a desparate denel now deals with pakistan again something the previous govt had extracted from them not to do.
how can strategic decisons be made when we are so shortsighted
instead we should have extracted concessions from denel and allowed them to operate in indian market
btw bye bye denel and bye bye bhim for which we had worked on a decade with denel and thru so many trials with other firms, rfp etc
btw fernandes in one tenure sent snowmobiles to siachen a deal which had been pending for 14 years thanks to these same fellows at mod
someone may have made money in that too like that lady jaya jaitly but the soldiers got what they needed
Nick_76Maybe they want to push in some Rafales with the upgrade;so taking all the time in negotiations!:eek:
oh usual MOD IAF stuff. holding out for the best technology with least cost. the french are asking for $500 million. according to mod rules, now 30% of that has to be reinvested in india so all that jazz
Nick_76Maybe they want to push in some Rafales with the upgrade;so taking all the time in negotiations!:eek:
about the Armats they are obsolete i think they will be effectively blind once the radar goes off.they have already been retired by the french??Any country other than India still fielding the Armat anyone know?
obsolete is a relative term. in todays world, the armat may not be state of the art since its seeker has to be tuned on the base before its loaded up, and it cant loiter. but in real terms, its still a deadly weapon, and india may well have refurbished the rounds. at 120 km, it allows for a jaguar and mirage to undertake sead work. also we purchased it given what pak was inducting in 80’s, all those systems are still in place.
as-30 l was also regarded as obsolete once lgbs became common, but in gulf war, out 0f 60 as-30s almost all hit to give a success rate of 95%.
Nick_76Both AESA and datalink technology could easily be aquired through a large scale upgrade program for the Su-30MKI fleet. There are currently 210 on order and I have no doubt that every radar house around would cut its own throat to fulfill an order that big. Indeed Tikhimov have reportedly shown plans for an AESA Irbis to the Indians.
well the sukhois already have datalinks because of which they are a pain in the wazoo to other fighters they tangle with in iaf exercises. they routinely share info for passive intercepts.
aesa has already been talked about by niip to india, you’re right.
even tho’ its hush hush on both sides and will come about probably midway through the mki production.
all discussions apart, the mmrca wont be scrapped now, its a done thing. its taken a life of its own now and who knows which aircraft will be selected?!
Nick_76while the mig-29 will be upgraded first and then the mirage 2000, it still makes no sense as to why they are taking things so slowly. the aim should be to maximize the punch. and by beginning the upgrade sooner, fewer aircraft can be moved from the flightline to the workbase and then back.
Nick_76bwahahahaha the indian MOD needs to be hit with wet sandals
what is wrong with them? 1-2 years more to decide on the upgrade?
are they nuts?
and two slaps to that vivek raghuvanshi who claimed that the mirage 2000 would be all israeli equipped. dummkopf!
http://www.defensenews.com/dubaiairshow/story.php?F=3178407
Posted 11/12/07 13:15Print this story Thales Discloses EW Deals, Finishes Mirage 2000-9 Program
By PIERRE TRAN
Thales is executing several contracts for electronic warfare systems received last year from Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries, said Francois Quentin, chief executive of Thales’ Aerospace division, here at the Dubai Airshow. Quentin said the deals had not been previously announced but declined to provide more details.
Thales and its partners also marked the conclusion of the Mirage 2000-9 program for the United Arab Emirates Air Force, a 1998 contract to buy 32 new multirole Mirage 2000-9s and upgrade 30 Mirage 2000s to the -9 specification.
Dassault Aviation was prime contractor on the Mirage 2000-9, while Thales supplied the RDY-2 multimode radar, Shehab laser designation pod, Nahar forward-looking radar, reconnaissance pod and countermeasures suite.
The Mirage-9 was a more capable aircraft than the 2000-5 flown by the French Air Force.
Thales has offered to upgrade about 50 Mirage 2000-H aircraft flown by the Indian Air Force to the 2000-5 specification.
“The proposal is proceeding in a normal fashion,” Quentin said. “A decision could be made in one or two years.”
Nick_76As consumers, this is the mentality that is deeply embedded in our brains.
Arms deals are as much (if not more) political than financial. Forget the retail mentality where customer is king.
but didnt australia whack boeing over wedgetail delays?
some degree of accountability is essential.
i have never heard of any other firm behaving as mig did when iaf approached them for help to rectify design problems. other firms were snobbish but did help. not only did mig refuse help, they tried to price gouge iaf and then released a statement blaming iaf. and this is first hand info.
Nick_76At the end of the day the customer shouldn’t have to work round it. If you got shoddy service in a store you’d walk away and/or demand a refund, why should different standards apply to defence companies?
i agree.
but sometimes the customers backs against the wall, as indias often is. thanks to cheap russian weapons on account of politics and friendship prices, india never bothered developing a proper mic base till the mid 80’s whereas other countries eg prc, had begun a few decades back itself.
as a result of which each time, some new weapon is introduced into the neighbourhood, india wanted 2x that number and asap, and preferrably of later vintage and at as low a cost as possible.
this left only russia. add indias own socialist planned economy till the early 90s (when it was dismantled) and u have a foreign exchange problem. so only the russians are left, and india had to work with them come what may.
of course today, accepting such slipshod behaviour from mig is inexcusable. but just check how illplanned and crazy the russian mics governing body ie rosoboronexport still is, apart from sukhoi and some more professional firms.
-theres the nuke sub contract, now even that is delayed till 2008 since they couldnt do it on time, and they want $130 m more.
-gorshkov? no more words needed.
– 3 follow on frigates to existing talwar class, even they are supposed to be delayed and suffering from cost escalation
russia needs to get its mic managers accountable otherwise even long customers like india will ultimately move away
Nick_76guys,
-unfortunately-
russia has done this many times before, and will continue to do so. some of its state bureaucrats will pull tricks like these on the end customers. and which is what gives quality control a bad name.
and the less said about how pathetic mig can be in this dept, the better.
india received initial tunguska SAM systems which were already used and had bullet holes which were patched up!
when india evaluated whether to buy t-72 s (new) or t-90s, the army evaluators found the t-72 s batch “ready to be shipped to india” was used, had seen damage and had been hastily and poorly repaired.
so googeler is entitled to hold his opinion and he is correct that such things do pop up with russian exports, especially with mig.
when india tried to source spares for mig-21s from russia, they received a parts list which ahd prices 10x what was the actual list in russia.
when they attempted to ask mig to rectify design flaws in mig-21 the mig firm refused to assist initially with flimsy excuses and only did so after the indian govt made it a govt to govt issue.
some russian firms business practises leave a LOT to be desired as they tend to think the customer is a easy mark who can be looted and wont realise whats what.
the problem is that some customers get very touchy and then decide to walk out of the deal. others like india who have decades of working with russia, work around the problems and get the issues fixed.
Nick_76800 miles apparently.
BMD Watch: Japan makes BMD breakthrough
Published: Dec. 24, 2007 at 9:26 AM
Print story Email to a friend Font size:By MARTIN SIEFF
UPI Senior News Analyst
WASHINGTON, Dec. 24 (UPI) — Japan’s ballistic-missile defense program took a giant leap forward last week with its first successful interception of a ballistic missile with a U.S.-built Standard Missile-3 off Kauai Island, Hawaii.The SM-3 was launched from the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force’s Aegis destroyer Kongo, the MSDF said last week.
The test indicates Japan already has the capability to intercept and destroy in flight North Korean ballistic missiles such as the Rodong, or even the Taepodong-1, that Pyongyang could fire at its densely populated cities, experts told the Daily Yomiuri last Wednesday.
The Daily Yomiuri reported details of the test. It said tests began at 12:05 p.m. Monday when a real ballistic missile with a fake warhead was fired from the U.S. Navy’s Pacific Missile Range Facility on Kauai.
The Kongo picked up the target missile right after its take-off and responded rapidly, firing an SM-3 Block IA standard missile four minutes later. The SM-3 struck the target missile and eliminated it in an exoatmospheric interception more than 60 miles above sea level three minutes after the Kongo launched it, the newspaper said.
Although the test was a success, it was the first for Japanese BMD forces; the Aegis-SM-3 systems are now a relatively mature and very reliable technology. The paper noted that U.S. forces have now racked up 11 successful interceptions in 13 tests.
The target missile was a multistage one that was designed to have the flight characteristics of a North Korean Rodong intermediate-range ballistic missile with a range of just under 800 miles, the paper said.
IRBMs fly far more slowly than intercontinental ballistic missiles and therefore are technically much easier to intercept. SM-3s cannot destroy ICBMs in flight once they have accelerated to high speeds. But the SM-3 missiles do have the capability to intercept and destroy old Scud-type missiles, which do not jettison their early stages and therefore remain lower and larger targets. The Daily Yomiuri said the Rodong could fly at speeds of Mach 10, or 10 times the speed of sound. That is about half the velocity of an ICBM.
The newspaper said the successful test was personally watched Japanese Vice Defense Minister Akinori Eto, who was on the Kongo. It said the SM-3s’ interception and destruction of the target missile were recorded on an infrared camera.
“The success of this experiment is symbolic of close security relationship between Japan and the United States,” Eto said, according to the report.
Lt. Gen. Henry “Trey” Obering III, director of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency, welcomed the Japanese test and said it reflected and would further strengthen the U.S.-Japanese partnership.
Japan’s drive to develop effective ballistic missile defenses goes back to the alarm caused by North Korea’s August 1998 firing of a Taepodong-1 intermediate-range ballistic missile over the Japanese islands into the Pacific.
Nick_7621,000 crores, thats 4.7 billion $ surrendered because these MOD monkeys led by monkeys like antony, mukherjee and maino didnt do their job.
ppl are saying that the latest monkey in charge, antony is so afraid of his own shadow in arms deals and loves his clean image so much that everything is getting delayed even more.
all of them should be kicked out. we have to suffer these jokers for another 2 years.
Nick_76As far as I’m aware Pakistan has a comprehensive air defence network (with gaps) so I don’t quite understand how you came up with the idea of devoid of air defence.
your awareness needs to be updated then. they have literally no sam squadrons to speak of, bar obsolete hq-2s. the rbs-70, anti-aircraft AA and manpads are next to useless against fast movers at medium alt, which retain the initiative of how to attack.
they are reportedly acquiring the spada 2000, but how many units and even that is a medium sam. being sarh, it too is vulnerable to a kh-31 counterstrike. the bamse was also spoken of for pak, but that seems to have died a slow death.
imo, this is the biggest issue for pak. if india launches a coordinated strike forcing the aew out of theater, coupling it with jags + armats, or sukhois with kh-31s or bisons with kh-25s – a hole can be torn into paks air defence network. which will then be exploited by low level strikers, provided the anti-aew ops continue.
The biggest problem Pakistan has is the small size of it’s land mass leading to a very small warning time.
that, and the fact that a growing indian economy will see the technology edge + numbers on the indian side. the erieye will help in giving them some amount of look see into indian territory, but i doubt it will be operated too close to the border, and being a smaller platform, its range/ performance are going to have limitations.
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