Nick_76alh news.
HAL’s Dhruv gets CCS approval
BANGALORE: The Cabinet Committee on Security’s (CCS’s) recent clearance for the procurement of 159 indigenously-built Dhruv advanced light helicopters (ALH) at the cost of over Rs. 14,000 crore for the Army and Air Force, has come as a relief to the helicopter’s manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).
Speaking to The Hindu a senior company official said that “HAL was both pleased and relieved”, with the CCS’s sanction and that it had been achieved mainly due to the efforts of the Ministry of Defence and Chairman HAL Ashok Baweja.
Kept on hold for almost nine months in the face of strong criticism from the Army, Navy and Air Force chiefs, who had cited issues primarily relating to the poor serviceability of the 5.5 tonne machine, the HAL according to senior officials have had to initiate a number of steps before the CCS was convinced to clear the purchase.
The CCS’s note has now paved the way for the signing of the formal contracts between the customers and the HAL, with deliveries of the 159 machines expected to be spread over the next five years – through the 11th Five Year Plan and the first year of the 12th Plan. Of the 159 helicopters, around 105 are for the Army, while the rest will be acquired by the Air Force.
HAL who started deliveries of the Dhruv in January 2002, a good ten years after the prototype’s first flight and nearly twenty years after the programme was initiated, have so far manufactured and delivered around 60 of these multi utility machines to the Army, IAF, Navy and Coast Guard, and a handful to civilian customers like the ONGC and the Jharkhand government. But the copter has also been plagued by maintainability problems and poor availability of spares.
Two crashes, one during the run up to last February’s Aero India air show in Bangalore and the other, close to Karimnagar in Andhra Pradesh in November 2005 when the Dhruv was being ferried to Jharkhand, did not help the helicopter’s cause.
While the Karimnagar crash was due to the use of a date expired resin on the helicopter’s tail rotor, the Bangalore crash was attributed, by the HAL to pilot error, something the Air Force has not yet concurred with.
Faced with the criticism from the three Armed Forces’ chiefs on failures in the Dhruv’s line replacement units (LRUs), the HAL have initiated a number of steps to improve the reliability of the Dhruv, including setting up a new maintenance and overhaul division in Bangalore. The HAL was also forced for a while to stop production of the Dhruv in order to ensure that the maintenance and spares for the helicopters already delivered were brought up to the users’ acceptations.
Versatile machineA versatile machine that can perform admirably at both sea level and at altitudes as high as 6 and 7 km, the Dhruv’s LRU failure rate according to official sources has reduced from 16 per 100 hours of flying in 2002, to 6.1 per 100 hours in 2006, and to less than 5.5 for the entire fleet during the current year. Senior officials at the HAL also stressed that of the Dhruv’s 340 LRUs 170 have not failed at all.
Army Aviation has two squadrons of the ALH, one at Nasik and the other at the recently established base at Manasbal close to Srinagar. Another Army Aviation unit is currently being raised.
The Air Force also has two ALH squadrons at their air stations at Yelhanka (near Bangalore) and Sarsawa (near Saharanpur, Uttar Pradesh).
Official sources said that the CCS’ note clearing the Rs. 14,000-crore Dhruv order means that HAL’s order book position has touched Rs. 35,000 crore.
Nick_76Now that Akash is available, by when can we expect an ‘official’ order from IAF/IA for this system? Any idea how many would be on order??? What effect (if any) this would have on indian decision to purchase spyder???
an initial order of two units has already been intimated. now whether that is 2 batteries or two groups (8 batteries) is unknown.
if it is two squadrons, which is what is more likely, than its induction will follow usual standards. lsp, followed by series production. so a lsp of two squadrons could be anywhere between 4 batteries to much more. also, orders will have to be fitted according to when bel plans to produce the wlr by. because the rajendra based wlr will also occupy production space.
the spyder purchase shouldnt be affected by this, since full scale akash production will commence by 2008-09, and the spyders will supplant the osa-ak missiles more than the akash.
but theres rumours that even the spyder purchase has been put on hold because the air force wants some additional features.
given how delayed mod rfps can get, this might mean an additional shot in the arm for akash, as local orders get cleared fast.
Nick_76thanks muns!
Nick_76It may be noted that although the Indian BMD Pradyumna uses Israeli radars, it follows the Russian architecture exactly :- a surveillance radar detects an incoming threat first very early. After that, the launcher unit is assigned the target. The launcher unit’s local tracking radar then guides the missile to the target.
no..no..
in the indian case the surveillance cum tracking radar is the lrtr or the long range tracking radar, an indian version of the greenpine.
its backed up by the multifunction fire control radar which can rotate all around, and has antiaircraft capability as well. but both work in tandem for the intercept. its not following the russian concept or us concept really since there will be similarities between all three. actually we are quite similar to the US system in the usage of a 2 layered shield
also, like thaad even india is planning to integrate all it can into the bmd system, it would be foolish not to. so all the iafs radars for low flying targets, long range strategic radars like thd-1955, aerostats, awacs..its going to be a large integration.
obviosuly you’d want to get a unified air picture with zero gaps (as much as possible) that means as much radar coverage as possible.
Nick_76Janes is a highly respected organisation that produces a very large amount of information at a very rapid rate. Due to the very nature of their subject matter some errors are to be expected. However to call them inherently unreliable is dishonest as it is simply not the case. Indeed Janes is held in very high regard and used by a number of very important organisations and institutions. If you were talking about some pathetic rag like ‘Warships IFR’ (seriously if you read that, just stop) then fair enough, but not Janes.
the problem is that janes has few quality personnel working for them, compared to the volume of information they handle. so while they are regarded with keen interest over the stuff they get from airshows, trade expos and industry events which are basically all the released data from corporations, their analysis and local reports are very hit and miss.
so for the west coverage is great, in fact startling. but for asian countries, including india for instance, their coverage is pathetic. their local correpsondent is rahul bedi. who cant recognise a t-72 from a bmp or an agni from a trishul. its somewhat embarassing really. on the one hand theres christopher foss and on the other rahul bedi.
Nick_76politicians aside, does anyone know what the IAF themselves prefer out of the contenders?
too early to tell since they havent evaluated all the competitors with the level of detail necessary
all these aircraft are ok, as far as requirements go..but there are various other factors:
aircraft performance in different criteria
sanction proof + political influence
transfer of technology and offsets
cost, both per unit, and lifecycle
weapons offered with each package
too hard to tell really.
Nick_76Is it not risky to have rajendra as the radar for everything? I mean if a chink in its system is found that means the whole integrated defence system including the BMD is under threat.
the rajendra is just for the akash, not bmd. it is supported at group level by 3d car.
for bmd, there is the long range tracking radar, and the multi function fire control radar.
also, since the rajendra is local it can be modified locally to address any chinks in the system. nor are its key frequencies etc known abroad.
before these fire tests, the rajendra was taken to pokhrans electronic warfare range, where it was tested by the iaf against all the gizmos they have- its detection, lock on etc were all tested and cleared under heavy ew conditions.
Also under what conditions were the test conducted in? Have they been done in a simulated battle mode (excuse the non technical non fashionable terms) or did the radar ops know from which direction the lakshya etc were coming?
realistic terms. the 3D CAR detects where the target is coming from and tells the rajendra to slew there and engage it with missiles. of course some amount of foreknowledge is inevitable that u know today u will be doing a cross over test and then followed by multiple target test then so on..
the entire test exercise was scripted by the iaf.
Nick_76Mr Sitanshu Kar, Additional Principal Information Officer, Directorate of Public Relations, Ministry of Defence
Nick_76Surface to Air Akash missile declared ready for inductionSaturday December 22 2007 00:00 IST
PTINEW DELHI: India’s Surface to Air Akash missile was cleared by the Government today for induction into the Armed forces after a series of trials in the last few days successfully proved the weapon’s “kill capability.”
The induction came close on the heels of successful firing of the long range surface to surface nuclear capable missile Agni and strides in indigenous development of an anti-missile system.
An official announcement here said a series of user trials of the missile over the last days at the Interim Missile Test Range in Balasore in Orissa had been ” fully successfull” demonstrating the weapon’s intended objective.
“The evaluation of the missle has been completed and the weapon system is now available for indigenoous production,” Sitanshu Kar, the Defence Ministry spokesman said.
” The missile system is uniquely configured and customised for Indian Air Force and Indian Army”, the spokesman said in significant remarks clarifying that Indian defence scientists had now managed to rectify flaws in the missile.
The success of the Akash came as a shot in the arm for the scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation(DRDO), which successfully test fired for the second time the 3,000 kms range surface to surface Agni-III missile and an indigenous interceptor missile, which is planned to be turned into a Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) system.
Nick_76Surface to Air Akash missile declared ready for induction
Saturday December 22 2007 00:00 IST
PTINEW DELHI: India’s Surface to Air Akash missile was cleared by the Government today for induction into the Armed forces after a series of trials in the last few days successfully proved the weapon’s “kill capability.”
The induction came close on the heels of successful firing of the long range surface to surface nuclear capable missile Agni and strides in indigenous development of an anti-missile system.
An official announcement here said a series of user trials of the missile over the last days at the Interim Missile Test Range in Balasore in Orissa had been ” fully successfull” demonstrating the weapon’s intended objective.
“The evaluation of the missle has been completed and the weapon system is now available for indigenoous production,” Sitanshu Kar, the Defence Ministry spokesman said.
” The missile system is uniquely configured and customised for Indian Air Force and Indian Army”, the spokesman said in significant remarks clarifying that Indian defence scientists had now managed to rectify flaws in the missile.
The success of the Akash came as a shot in the arm for the scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation(DRDO), which successfully test fired for the second time the 3,000 kms range surface to surface Agni-III missile and an indigenous interceptor missile, which is planned to be turned into a Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) system.
Nick_76Ho boy, suddenly an avalanche of news on the missile front..
Breakthrough in missile technology
Avinash Chander, Director, Advanced Systems Laboratory, with models of Agni missiles in Hyderabad on Friday.
HYDERABAD: In a major technological breakthrough that will drastically reduce the weight of missiles and enable them to reach longer ranges with heavier payloads, DRDO scientists have developed composite rocket motor casings.
Only the United States, Russia and a European consortium have achieved a similar feat. Faced with denial of advanced technology by the Missile Technology Control Regime, the scientists from DRDO’s Advanced Systems Laboratory, Hyderabad, developed it in four years.
ASL Director Avinash Chander told The Hindu here on Friday: “This is a major breakthrough, which provides us the key technology to go into longer missions with lighter weight.” The first large composite motor with carbon filament winding was realised after it was subjected to “full qualification and static tests.”
Metallic casings
Most of the missiles today had metallic rocket motor casings made of maraging steel or other varieties of steel. With weight being a critical factor, the trend world over was to move over to composite carbon filament wound motors. “Our aim is to have as low a weight as possible,” Mr. Chander said.
Pointing to the advantages of CRMC (composite rocket motor casing), he said they would reduce the weight of a rocket casing by 40 per cent, enabling the missile to take heavier payloads. The payload equivalent to the weight reduced could go up or the range of the missile could be increased. Or a combination of both could also be achieved.
Other major benefits include cost reduction by half compared to metallic casings, better performance and long storage due to non-corrosive nature of the material.
The flight trial of a missile with the CRMC would “happen shortly.” K. Jayaraman, Director (composites), ASL, said the development of the CRMC in four years by the ASL was much shorter compared to the development of similar technology elsewhere in the world.
Agni programme
Mr. Chander, who is also the programme director of Agni, said Agni-III was built with a lot of potential to take higher payloads. The same missile could reach ranges of more than 5,000 km with minor modifications in the system.
Nick_76very positive belief in the system. seems like the akash sam is finally ready!
http://www.hindu.com/2007/12/22/stories/2007122255621300.htm
Akash missile campaign ends
T.S. Subramanian
——————————————————————————–
Missile fired from a mobile launcher on Friday at 2.15 p.m.
It was a fantastic success: top DRDO official
——————————————————————————–
HYDERABAD: A nine-day campaign, involving the surface-to-air Akash missile, radars, mobile launchers and support systems, concluded on Friday at the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur, near Balasore, Orissa, with the firing of a missile.
According to Prahlada, Chief Controller, R&D, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), an Akash missile was fired from a mobile launcher on Friday at 2.15 p.m. to destroy an unmanned aircraft.
“This was to demonstrate the comprehensive and complete capability of the Akash system to accurately guide the missile and destroy a target,” he said. A single missile was used to destroy a single target, which was flying more than 20 km away.
On Wednesday, two missiles were fired at a single target, which was a body towed by a pilot-less aircraft.
Ever since the campaign began on December 13, a total of six missiles were fired on different days from the ITR with the full Akash system working in tandem. R. R. Panyam has been the Project Director of all the six Akash flights.
Mr. Prahlada said the successful campaign “should set aside any apprehension or doubt in the minds of the users — the Army and the Air Force — on the readiness and effectiveness of the Akash missile system.” The campaign was “a fantastic success and it has international significance in both technology and operation,” he added.
The six flights took place in the presence of IAF personnel.
Another DRDO official described the trial as “a great show.” He said the trajectories of all the six missiles were monitored, using electro-optical tracking system.
Akash can destroy aircraft flying 25 km away. It is 5.78 metres long and weighs more than 700 kg. It is fired by solid propellants. It can destroy multiple targets. It can be fired from trucks and tracked vehicles.
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Nick_76Nick76, I have made my point. And that is all I wanted to do.
actually you havent, at all. if you had, i wouldnt have even replied. but never mind, no big deal.
PM me if u want to take this discussion forward and we’ll avoid derailing the topic. though i dont think my opinions are going to change much.
I am not in business to convince you or anyone else.
🙂
Back to Indian marvels in its missile program.
sure. lets get back to topic.
Nick_76That is only In Indian point of view. Can you give me figures how many hindus are slaughtered in Pakistan every year as comapred to India?
the correct question is how many hindus are left in pakistan to be slaughtered? compare how many there were at partition and today, and the facts are evident. they were converted, killed and otherwise cowed and today they are not even a minority in pakistan with the ability to raise their voice. compare the same condition to india, where even communal riots are two sided affairs with both sides fighting and then paying the price. some 10-15% of indias 1 Billion plus population is muslim. whats paks figure?
what about Gujrat which is very recent?
gujarat was a riot situation pure and simple. some muslims burn a train full of hindus and the backlash happened. and please dont tell me that it was an accident, no indian believes that political bilge of an enquiry done to appease muslim sentiment before election occurred.
if hindus did the same in kashmir, they would have got hammered. seems to me your definition of oppression is only when muslims come out on the shorter end of the stick. besides, even without doing anything in kashmir, hindus were ethnically cleansed.
Who are fighting against oppression are not terrorists they are freedom fighter.
yes, freedom fighters who are supported by a rival state, attack civilian targets, commit ethnic cleansing etc etc. please- there is no muslim “freedom movement” in the world today whose hands are not drenched in the blood of fellow muslims (dubbed as heretics) and of course non muslims.
If you start calling them terrorist than Bhagat Singh and many like him will also be labelled terrorists.
comparing bhagat singh to islamic “freedom fighters” is a joke. the man even went to the extent of ensuring that his sole act of terror was throwing a low power explosive as a sign of dissidence, and made sure none were hurt or killed. he then surrendered himself to the authorities to make a political point and was hung. compare and contrast to the “ghazis” who live for the sake of violence.
furthermore, bhagat singh was a committed socialist – hence called comrade bhagat singh at the time. tell me, what happened to the communist party in pakistan?
The UN resolutions were not for specific time or place. Bother to read the text at http://www.gharib.demon.co.uk/unres/res6.htm, http://www.gharib.demon.co.uk/unres/res7.htm and http://www.gharib.demon.co.uk/unres/res10.htm. These resolutions are not meaningless.
have you even read them yourself? they ask for complete demilitarization and return of the state to original condition before they can conduct a plebiscite etc. instead, pak has gifted away territory to china, annexed part of its kashmir and attached it to pak, runs kashmir w/o the same process as rest of pak…
even the un recognises the above resolutions are meaningless today. nobody cares for them, not india, not the us, nor others or even the un. only pak keeps at them because they are the one thing they can use to poke india with or make it a “dispute” as compared to keep whats with you, and i keep whats with me.
However, it is the inability of Pakistani Governments and the present anti-muslim political situation throughout the world that has made things complicated.
present anti-muslim situation? dont you have an iota of introspection when you make claims like these? radical muslims in this century itself have killed tens of thousands of people. ignore the articles if you can and just check the bodycount @ religionofpeace.com
over 10,831 attacks since 9/11 by muslims across the world. and its likely to be an underestimate given how many incidents escape mention.
and then tell me, how many non muslims have muslims killed over a piece of paper from medieval arabia which has absolutely no relevance to non muslims?
can i go into saudi arabia and discuss how mohammad was or wasnt? i’ll be executed. and you talk of anti-muslim political situation.
i can stand up in the us and call jesus names, and nobody bothers. if i print a cartoon of mohammad, my life will be in danger!
seriously, if the muslims in the world need to progress, you need to learn to accept criticism and eschew violence. there have been almost NO gandhis in islam. why?
The fact is it has become fashionable to label muslims as terrorists because this suits the interests of oppressors. People struggling in Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, Algeria, Iraq are only fighting for their rights. No matter what they are called and called by whom?
lets see all the people struggling for rights in above countries see it fit to kill, terrorize civilians, kill in the name of their religion and repeatedly and the whole world calls them terrorists..but they are fighting for their rights. sure!
your muslim freedom fighters kill more muslims in the process of their struggles. check how many iraqis have died at the hands of “freedom fighters”, algerias govt is itself muslim and is attacked by these freedom fighters because they are secular.
chechnya, beslan made you proud did it?
how can you not even admit that muslim terrorism is a huge problem in the world today? its the classic head in the sand syndrome shown by many muslims. they refuse to admit islam has problems despite all the violence committed in islams name.
why should non muslims roll over and die for no reason? each time a muslim commits an act of terror in islams name, he is ensuring that non muslims regard islam with wariness. its pure common sense, man.
what is a muslims rights anyway? what makes you so different from the rest of us hairy, stinking, smoking, fornicating human beings that you require different laws and special treatment?
are secular laws, and civil rules not enough?
wherever there is a significant muslim minority in any country, out come the claims of independence and freedom fighting.
gandhi was a freedom fighter. he and his men (whom most paks call names) would walk upto british troops, get thrashed and walk back. again and again. non violent protest. in contrast, ur freedom fighters, quote the quran, and attack civilians.
and once so called freedom is achieved, they kill each other.
Thanks for correcting my English. What about BJP and its sub organization who are not only killing muslims but also christians and other minorities?
if muslims kill hindus why do you think hindus wont strike back? you can lump them as bjp or whatever, but fact is you seem to whine a lot about retaliation without even admitting that muslims are not some fairies who are always victimized.
christians like george fernandes dont have any problems standing up with bjp. conduct a poll in india and u’ll find most indians are as wary of islamic terrorism whether they are hindu, sikh or christian.
of course you hate bjp. all pakistanis do, but india elects them because they are fed up of islamic extremism. but like all political parties they can be voted out as well. its all about balance.
but u didnt answer my question. you tried to escape it by bringing in bjp,sjp whatever. what of the donation boxes in pakistan for attacks in india. what of the support for terror groups which move around openly? what of the manner in which pakistan exports terrorism across the world?
see if indian parties kill hindus, muslims, christians, martians, venusians in india thats indias problem. same with ur guys with whatever they do inside pakistan. but ur guys go to other countries and kill people in the name of islam. thats where the problem comes from.
Crazy people are on both the sides. Both of us cant deny that.
the difference is in the numbers and idealogy. india is nowhere in the same category as pak.
no military dictatorships in india. no lashkar e toiba which can openly brag about killing pakistanis and get funding. the indian army does not dismiss the chief judge of india and lock him up. tell me, google for pakistan and google for india..what do the results show you?
in india even the worst of enemies, the left and the bjp abide by the election results. in india the one party which hates the us, the left is still using elections to scuttle ties, not bombs and terror attacks. extremism in pakistan os widespread on the basis of religion and your establishment has supported it throughout to attack india.
in india we have been fighting maoists, sikh terrorists, muslim terrorists etc. we dont arm them, and send them across to pakistan to have fun. see the difference?
It has nothing to do with the size of the indiustry but the demand of the public. Pakistani film directors know that their public wont buy tickets to see propaganda movies.
really? a successful pak movie was one where a pak hero surrounded by his sidekicks attacks salman rushdie and finishes him off. the problem is that even while the rural pak public would love to have such movies, but ur production values are lousy. i wont put up youtube clips, but you must already know what the reality is. not to mention the fact that pak tv serials on the pak army and af with mustachioed evil indians are very popular.
even indias movies were quite lousy, but the money in movies has meant that better movies are being made.
Keeping balance is important. In reality, Pakistan is not worth discussing at all. Whatever Pakistani corrupt Generals or politicians tell to their people, the the fact remains that there is simply no comparison between India and Pakistan. Population, literacy, technology, industry, democracy, military, in any field India is ahead of Pakistan. Infact India or any other country does not have to do anything against Pakistan, its own corrupt military and civil bureaucracy will destroy it in due time.
i agree but i would rather that pak be a successful and peaceful neighbour, contrary to what you think most indians dont care about pak in the negative sense. we are only irritated at pak from time to time because of terrorism, otherwise what you do within pak is of your concern and yours only.
but heres the rub from your posts i get the feeling that you think islam is the solution to paks problems, on that disagree- i think the only way pak can get out of the trouble it has found itself in, is if it drops the islamic state business and becomes a modern secular state like turkey.
Nick_76good news for Akash, now lets see how many orders are placed.
Akash SAM downs UAV in flight trial
Written on December 21, 2007 – 5:50 pm | by FIDSNS |The Akash Missile has successfully hit the bull’s eye for the fifth time in a row in the last ten days at test range in Balasore. The fifth and last trial successfully took place at 2.15 pm today at Chandipur- on- sea. The missile destroyed an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), which was flying simulating the air attack. The target vanished from the radar screen when the missile was guided precisely in close proximity and the warhead blast occurred, much to the delight of users present in the flight campaign. This is the grand finale of the ten days users campaign meticulously planned by the Indian Air Force.
Akash is a moblie, mulitiple target handling, medium range Air Defence missile developed under Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP). The missile system has been configured to be part of futuristic network centric operation, most of the operations having been made automated. The entire weapon system has gone through functional evaluation in Kolar near Bangalore followed by operation and mobility trials in Pokharan ranges. The ECCM (Electronic Counter Counter Measure) evaluation was carried out at Gwalior by Air Force against various types of electronic target and counter measures. The final phase of user evaluation as part of user trials was done in Chandipur. ITR, Balasore provides world’s best instrumentation facilities. The flight was conducted under the leadership of Dr Panyam, Project Director. Dr Prahlada, who conceptualised Akash and now Chief Controller at DRDO HQ was present during campaign.
About 300 strong team was present for ten days campaign. Representatives from public sector BDL, BEL etc were also present.
Indian Air Force officials witnessed users trial. With the conclusion of Akash evaluation, the is now available for indigenous production in the country. The missile system is uniquely configured and customised for Indian Army and Air Force.
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