Bold claim, when there is nothing left to choose from really.

Bold claim backed by by observing IAF acquisitions, as well as speaking to the people at the pointy end of the stick.

The Su-35 video shows both the R-27 and R-77. There has to be a reason for that.

The R-27 TE has a range advantage over the R-73E, and the semiactive radar variant is a cheaper counterpoint to the R-77.
In IAF view, Russian missiles are regarded as equivalent to their western counterparts, but much cheaper. Now whether that is 100% true is debatable given competing figures, specifications etc, but they are regarded as working items.

Might want to do your fact checking a bit better. In the E and E war, one side had experienced Ukrainian maintainers and the other experienced Russian maintainers. If they can’t do it no one can.

Today’s RuTech BVR is probably a very very serious threat. However looking back at the old days just doesn’t seem to hold up. For them other tech was very good, i.e. the helmet heater R-73 etc.

What experienced maintainers, where? I have seen the accounts on the net, none of them really hold up. Much speculation and “could have been”. No account of spares supply, about what was available and what wasnt. No real life interviews of the crew who fought on either side.

If the Russian AA-10s were really all that crap, neither the PLAAF or the IAF would have purchased thousands of those rounds. They obviously did live fire trials, checked them out, liked what they saw and purchased them.

Now ROE, combat evaluation is a tricky thing at the best of times, and the AA-10 can still fail. But I wouldnt take a shooting war between two countries relying on mercs to do their fighting as anything indicative of what the PLAAF or IAF would necessarily face.

Guys,

The article states:

11 Squadrons of MKI, 6 each of MRCA and LCA, 3 each of MiG-29s and Mirage 2000’s, and 4 of Upgraded Jaguars. Add a couple of upgraded MiG-27s (though the article doesnt mention it).

And you have: 35 Squadrons.

The IAFs authorised strength is: 39.5 combat squadrons.

The remaining will come from the FGFA and with the MiG-27 retiring, thats around 6 Squadrons worth.

The next to go will be the Jaguars and the MiG-29’s/ Mirages- thats where the MCA comes in.

Any shortfall delays in between will nodoubt be made up by more MRCAs and LCAs.

A littlebird tells me that the former will have an option to continue the line, and that the IAF has been given a variety of proposals for the latter.

Thanks Frank.

———————-

Indian Air Force to begin combat jet trials in June
Submitted by Tarique on Tue, 09/25/2007 – 06:38. India News
New Delhi, Sep 25 (IANS) The Indian Air Force (IAF) will begin trials of the six competing multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) in June 2008 ahead of its proposed purchase of 126 fighters for around $10.2 billion to meet a longstanding requirement .

The three-month field trials will follow four months of technical evaluation by the IAF after rivals Boeing (F/A-18E/F), Dassault (Rafale), Eurofighter (Typhoon) Lockheed Martin (F-16), Russian Aircraft Corporations (MiG-35) and Saab (JAS 39 Gripen) submit their proposals by February 2008.

All six are expected to respond to the MRCA tender dispatched by the ministry of defence (MoD) last month via the respective embassies.

Industry sources said each competitor would submit one aircraft with a ‘limited array’ of weapons for evaluation in varied environments in which the MRCA will eventually be deployed.

These will include tropicalised conditions in southern India, desert conditions in Rajasthan and the mountainous Kashmir region.

All contenders are likely to have an additional aircraft in reserve and will bear the entire cost of testing, including transportation and fuel, in keeping with India’s rules of “no cost, no commitment” with regard to all military equipment trials.

Once the trials conclude in September 2008, IAF teams will be dispatched to the respective MRCA manufacturing countries to appraise the remaining weapon systems, a task expected to last till the year end or till early 2009.

Thereafter, the IAF would shortlist the MRCA in order of merit based on overall performance, open the commercial bids and begin negotiations on the lowest tender.:rolleyes:

While the MoD believes the MRCA contract can be inked by 2012-14, the IAF, familiar with the ministry’s cautious bureaucratic and hidebound procedures, foresee it taking much longer.

It does not anticipate the fighters joining squadron service before 2020-21.

Under the terms of purchase, the first 18 MRCA are to be acquired in a flyaway condition with the remaining 108 being built locally under licence, in keeping with the mandatory transfer of technology (ToT) clause.

It is, however, likely that the number of MRCA could increase to around 200, Minister of State for Defence minister M.M. Pallam Raju said shortly before the tender for the fighters was released Aug 28.

The IAF is anxious to induct additional combat aircraft to bolster fast depreciating numbers in order to retain parity with neighbouring nuclear rival Pakistan that has embarked on an ambitious drive for fighter acquisition from the US and China.

“Unless immediate steps are taken to arrest the reduction in IAF force levels, the nation will for the first time in its history lose the conventional military edge over Pakistan,” former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi had declared in a classified three-page letter to then defence minister Pranab Mukherjee last year.

The selected MRCA vendor will also be required to undertake an offset of 50 percent – up from the mandatory 33 percent – of the contact value and assist indigenous firms in launching the licensed production of engines, radar, avionics and related equipment within 48 months of inking the contract.

Local depot-level maintenance facilities for MRCA are also needed to be initiated in the same time frame.

IAF sources said the offset and the ToT are likely to take the longest to negotiate, as India had still not firmed up these procedures.

IAF insiders and analysts expect discussions on these complex issues to take up to a decade to finalise – and half that period thereafter – before production can begin some time towards the end of the next decade.

Alongside, India’s military-industrial complex does not have the capacity to absorb such an inordinately large volume of sophisticated technology and would need to calibrate it judiciously over an extended time frame.

The life-time maintenance support for MRCA, likely to be in service for over 40 years, is also expected to further delay matters as the IAF had little or no experience of this aspect too, one analyst declared.

Meanwhile, rivals Boeing and Lockheed Martin have launched the most aggressive sales pitch of all contenders for their respective MRCA, predicating its sale to the rising swell of India-US strategic and military ties.

Targeting not only the IAF, the media and ‘influential power brokers’, the US defence conglomerates are sanguine about their prospects despite the continuing political opposition in India to the bilateral civilian nuclear deal, including the chances of it falling through.:rolleyes:

Many US defence companies had predicated their success in India to the nuclear deal, perceiving it to be an important marker in the burgeoning alliance between New Delhi and Washington.

“India-US defence and strategic relations, including the sale of military equipment, are robust enough to continue even if the nuclear deal does not fructify,” a senior American analyst and academician associated with the US naval war college said recently in New Delhi.

The prospect of the nuclear deal failing to mature will create a minor blip but the two sides are too far down the strategic partnership route to pull back, he added.

Russia, the other principal MRCA contender, is not only banking on India’s reliable and continuing patronage for its military requirements but adopting arm-twisting pressure tactics to dissuade India from sourcing defence hardware from Washington.

It is locked in acrimonious talks with Indian officials to re-negotiate the deal for 138 Sukhoi SU-30MKI multi-role fighters by raising the price of each aircraft by $3-4 million piece, a demand that could be resolved provided India agreed to buy the MiG-35, official sources told IANS.

Convinced that political consideration would eventually decide the MRCA contract, the less influential European consortium with their Typhoon and the French fielding the Rafale are adopting a low profile in New Delhi’s corridors of power.

http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/2007/sep/24/indian_air_force_begin_combat_jet_trials_june.html

The Indian Govt has no clue of what it is doing.

Sorting aircraft by performance, than saying “negotiate with the lowest tender”.

How can any aircraft be rejected when all aircraft come from such disparate performance regimes? The MiG, the F/A-18, Gripen, EF- all have different performance abilities.

The Indian MOD should be disbanded and reconstituted with professionals from the services and R&D.

These armchair warriors are ruining the Indian defence acquisition roadmap.

Now that RFP have gone out, i assume IAF to say the least know how they are going to fit MRCA among other??? If MRCA doesn’t bring in anything (which India doesn’t already have or can get from other sources) then i suspect this brings into the question the validity of MRCA as a project???

The MRCA will bring in a high technology aircraft far superior to any other a/c in the IAF fleet bar the Sukhoi. Thats about it. The rest about TOT is more germaine to spares and logistics than local production. That apart, everyone else in the Indian procurement system is drunk and on pot, causing all the delays.

This is what needs to be put up at the entrance of the Ministry of Defence, in fact, in front of the PMs office as well.

The new logo of the Indian Govt.

Frickin’ morons, it shouldnt take more than a year to engage all the contestants, decide upon the winner in another, and have deliveries begin a couple of years later. Idiots are talking of a few years just to decide, as if the present delay was not inexcusable by itself.

Lazy gits in the MOD.

any damn thing that happens w.r.t Pakistan ,,, be it online or in a real world ,,,

Blame it on those scheming Indians !!! its all their fault !! :rolleyes:

“Those infidels I tell you, its all their fault. Becaaaaaaause they are infidels!”

Comical Ali, aka Baghdad Bob aka Phrozen Flame in his day job circa 2003

The certificate maybe for an elite. However, in 2003-2004 KANWA was reporting the PLAAF clocking very high hours (over 200) with some very intense training at that time. This however may have softened in the succeeding years.

It wouldnt hold true for the entire AF, since it would make budget planning chaotic. It would probably hold true for some squadrons, which went through a heightened state of readiness or an exercise.

However, we do have a solid reference for 160 hours for a J-7 pilot. This is in reference to the J-7 pilot that was killed in November 2006. His plane was over a populated area when it developed trouble and he had to flew his plane into a safe zone before he crashed. However he didn’t make it. The newspaper made a reference that he had flown over 140 hours for the year and is 10% away from reaching his quota. This is also an indication that crashes are reported and people don’t have to make up stories about them.

Depends on what his seniority and what his role is, I guess? Do we have any standard flight hours- for say a minimum qualification in flight hours, for a fully OPs pilot to meet?

The third reference is what the PLAAF 1st Division commander told General Pace. 140-150 hours per year.

Ok.